yep. it was desert when the heathen jews began their "terrorist occupation" of it by buying the land off the "palestinians" who owned it (and who were only too happy to sell a useless plot of sand to a bunch of dumb jews). when they worked the land over and made it produce, all of a sudden the people who sold it wanted it back and claimed it was "stolen" from them.

seems to me that if separation was the best option for quebec, people would have realized it then the pq would have won, no?

thats a subjective and highly debatable assertion

how do you know? how can any of us say with even an IOTA of certainty what the agenda of the upper echelons of the US military was in 2004?

posted by trey: "Thankfully the British are better diplomats than their American counterparts".

heh....some US marines already said that if it had been them and not the british involved in this incident, they would have shot at the iranians..

i also dont think this will lead to anything, but we can always hope.

well a similar incident occured in 2004 where 8 british sailors were kidnapped by iran. they were released after 3 days of talks.
plus, starting in 1979 (ending in '81), a bunch of american soldiers were held by iran for 444 days. neither of these 2 incidents precipitated all-out war with iran..
i cant help but think back to the northern border skirmishes eariler this year with hezbollah and israel. what hezbollah has shown their brothers in arms across the middle east basically, is that kidnapping the enemies' soldiers gets results, of a sort.

witnessed

wait..you think that police officers should comport themselves in a manner that disregards their own personal safety/security?

commutative

well! that put ME in my place

blake and basdini are about the only ones making any sense in this thread. its fun to watch people i dont like tear into each other though

no shortage of those in mtl

its all acid. its just that whatever you got that made you trip balls for 12 hours was a stronger dose, and whatever you got recently was a milder dose.
mushrooms, acid and mescaline (real, like from peyote & san pedro, not pcp mtl"mesc"), are all very similar in effect, so your comment of it being like a shroom trip is not incongruous. at low doses, its harder to tell the difference between those 3 substances that form the psychedelic trinity.

you dont NEED a chemist, really...just do the blacklight test....it takes a second and it doesnt even waste your dose.

if you did the test, then YOU would be the chemist. which is always fun

Angel Jay: Oh shit! Don't tell me your thinking of whipping your dick at that fine piece of woman, are you?

[Jay nods. Angel slaps Jay with his harp]

Angel Jay: Tell you what... Look over at Silent Bob and see if he thinks that a good idea to whip your dick out.

[Jay looks at Silent Bob with a questioning look. Silent Bob shakes his head]

Angel Jay: That's it boy, put the dick down. You gotta go from the heart, yo. No little perv-bullshit's gonna work for this one. Be smooth. Be Don Juan de la Nooch. Now I gotta beat the shit out of those punch-sucker little bitches. Remember: Don't pull your dick out 'till she ask, or until she's sleeping. BOOOONG...

me too! where at?

........milk stops a shroom buzz...idiocy

was it hoffmans 100th bday by any chance?

if you didnt sign any contract from the promoter saying you couldnt play at other gigs but his on a given weekend, then whats the problem

makes me think of the way everyone always divides up into ethnic groups at cegep...

all youve done is take popular opinion and make it very blunt.


but no, i know, i realize that message boards should be about the exchange of opinions and all that. its just that i dont like you and i dont like very much of what you have to say, thats all.

hey you already adhere to those rules so what does that say?

i dont know that theyre capable of it on their own. i would like to hope that they are, but the opression they suffer at the hands of their govt is widespread and institutionalized. i totally agree that we cant force positive change, but what do we do about negative change?and for the record i dont think that a preemptive strike is a good idea. i dont think its a bad idea either. i think theres alot going on that needs to be considered before saying yes or no. in fact, i think that the more variables that are brought into the consideration, the harder it is to ultimately make a decision. all you can do is ponder back and forth from one perspective to another..

man, afternoon naps are addictive like cigarettes are addicitve

HELL no

.....and the great & emiment sage of ravewave passes his judgement upon the world yet again.

what bigotry am i displaying, in your opinion? i'm a bigot because i despise extreme islamic fundamentalism? if you look at my last post, i asked some questions; in order to better understand what it is you're saying.
all i can see is the same repetition of anti-american rhetoric and frankly, its getting pretty tired. i completely agree that there is more to the issue than just iran's nuclear issue, or just their oil, but you can't try and consider the iranian issue as a whole and not admit that those factors ARE involved.

anyways, your comment regarding israel just serves to shows which brand of media propaganda you subscribe to.

if you want to discuss this in a rational fashion, without jumping the gun, name-calling, and dictating your arguments down to everyone else as if you are the only one on some horse high enough to see whats TRULY going on, then i'd be happy to engage you. otheriwse i'm also done with this thread.

so youre saying that since america has blood on its hands, so to speak, it is no position to make some kind of military strike, offensive or otherwise, against iran, even if a byproduct of such a strike would be the neutralization of the iranian nuclear issue?

are you also saying that in effect, american, and by extension western society, is just as "unfree" as iran?

and what is wrong with having access to legal abortion in america?

i think that its pretty safe to say that any country who routinely imprisons dissidents (religious, political & otherwise) and holds them without trail indefinetly, denies their right to defense, tortures them, kills them, sanctions stoning of its women in the streets, severely censors its media, and whose leaders grow unimaginably rich by exploiting the country's national resources at the expense of the populace at large can be considered a dictatorship-in-practice. iran is a kleptocracy run by kleptocrats.

ya, one just subjugates women and burns their clits off, the other straps bombs to themselves and commit suicide while taking as many innocents with them as possible...

dawn of the necrofecalizer

yeah here it is. its long but an interesting read nonetheless

MAPS: Special Digest: LSD on Blotter Paper
smiile at [ usit.net ] smiile at [ usit.net ]
Mon Jan 18 02:48:34 CST 1999

* Previous message: MAPS: LSD vs. LSA?
* Next message: MAPS: Special Digest: LSD on Blotter Paper
* Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

Contributions from Kit Bonson, robert keil, Peter Webster, Anthony Steele,
psilo, Chris Cappuccio, Bob Wallace, and Gennady Rut

----------------
From: kbonson at codon.nih.gov (Kit Bonson)
Subject: Re: MAPS: Special Digest: Re: Questions on "LSD on paper"

>From: Edmond Kelly
>Subject: RE: MAPS: Questions on "LSD on paper"
>
>It is my understanding that a piece of blotter paper is only capable on
>holding 200 micrograms of any drug substance.

Actually, this may not be true. A couple of years ago there was a
report in a psychiatric journal saying that a patient reported taking
mescaline in blotter form. I asked our pharmacist at work if this was
possible, presuming that an effective dose of mescaline of ~400 mg would
not go into a small blotter. But the pharmacist and I figured out, based
on solubility and such, that it was possible.
Of course, it is extremely unlikely that someone would attempt to
dissolve mescaline or other substances (amphetamine, strychnine,
whathaveyou that's been claimed to be in blotter) at such a sludge-like
concentration (ie: the smallest amount of liquid possible) and then
re-apply this sludge to a piece of blotter.
So it is still next to zero that blotters have mescaline or
adulterants in them.

>I know of no psychoactive
>drug other than LSD that is active orally at doses that low.

Fentanyl, an opioid, is extremely potent and is psychoactive for
pain at 100 micrograms (it is 80 times more potent than morphine).


>the FBI reports that from its analysis of seized blotter paper LSD, they
>believe that all blotter paper LSD is either totally the real thing or
>nothing at all. Basically, this means that blotter paper LSD is the single
>safest "street drug" in the sense that you always know what it is.

This is true, however. And I believe the late PharmChem labs
reported similar data.


>I have known people who claim that their blotter paper LSD was still good
>after they pulled it out of storage after more than a year which leads me to
>believe that if it is stored properly, it can last much longer than Albert
>Hofmann estimated. It must be protected from oxidation by the paper to some
>extent. The reports of continued potency after over a year involved storage
>in aluminum foil in a freezer. Perhaps the cold and lack of air contributed.

I believe someone told me that if kept properly that it will lose
only approximately half its potency in something like 10 years. On the
other hand, I know a scientist who says the original Sandoz LSD he received
for experiments in the 60's is still just fine for his investigational
needs in animals.

Kit

--------------------
From: robert keil
Subject: Re:MAPS: Questions on "LSD on paper"


I became fascinated by the question of what adulterants could appear
in blotter paper and undertook a few simple experiments to determine
just how much material you could get onto a piece of paper.
I used caffeine and another amine salt (alpha-methylbenzylamine. A
completely inactive compound with similar chemical properties to
amphetamine. It is completely legal) and made concentrated solutions of
both of these.
I then took several sheets of absorbant papers, ranging from
notebook paper to thicker art paper, to paper towels and soaked them in
these solutions. I found that, in general, the maximum amount of salt
that a paper will absorb when dried in on the order of 5-10mg/cm2.
When you get above this region, the salts start forming a coating on the
surface.
The upshot of this is that there aren't many compounds that are
active at the 5-10 mg range. It seems that aldulterating paper sheets
with strychnine, amphetamine, etc, would be somewhat difficult and not
terribly cost effective for the dealer.
I too am curious about purity of paper and pill LSD samples, and
have not seen many reports on the subject.
As regards your oxidation question, any reaction occuring on a paper
surface is going to involve many variables (temperature, exposure to
oxygen, humidity, pH of the paper, amount of light exposure) that make
it difficult to predict how fast the compound will degrade. I don't
think it is possible to give a simple rule of thumb for this process

robert keil phd
professor of chemistry
moorpark college

all opinions are my own, not my schools etc etc

------------------------
From: Peter Webster
Subject: Re: MAPS: Special Digest: Re: Questions on "LSD on paper"

>From: Edmond Kelly
>Subject: RE: MAPS: Questions on "LSD on paper"
>
>It is my understanding that a piece of blotter paper is only capable on
>holding 200 micrograms of any drug substance.

It is possible to put speed or perhaps strychnine on a bit of paper in an
amount that might be psychoactive, but nearly all suspicions of such are
more of paranoia than likelihood. If an outfit can manufacture LSD they are
very rarely going to put speed on the paper with it. If their output is so
limited that they resort to this, they are not going to produce an amount
that will enter general circulation.

Here's a sure-fire way to judge blotter. Put a blotter dose at the bottom
of a small test tube, and squirt in a few ml. of water, while observing it
under a long-wave blacklight. Room lights should be off. LSD is very
soluble in water, and in solution it fluoresces a brilliant blue-white
colour under blacklight illumination. AS a reference, quinine, as in the
tonic or quinine water used to make gin & tonic, fluoresces the same color.

Blotter paper can be stored for long periods in an airtight bottle in a
freezer. It will decompose slowly, but the decomposition products are not
harmful or active in the doses produced by the decomposition. AND, if you
disslove off the active LSD in water as above and then pull out the
blotter, you will see that the dark stain mostly remians on the paper, thus
the water solution has purified the dose to a significant extent. Of
course, the amount dissolved will not be optimum, so it may be necessry to
use tPeter Webster or even more to arrive at a full dose. With some
practice, using the same test tube size and amount of water, the brightness
of the fluoresence will even give a reasonable test of the strength. Bright
blue fluoresence is what you are looking for, if it looks only pale yellow,
there is not much left.

pw

-------------
From: "Anthony Steele"
To: "Holger Wagner"
Subject: RE: MAPS: Questions on "LSD on paper"

> I know that there have been reports of
> speed and even strychnine being sold as LSD - but I assume that those

There are also reports of MDMA causing Parkinson's disease ;) but that
doesn't make it true.

Read [ www.lycaeum.org ] for a
reality check

"a 5mm x 5mm "standard" square of blotter LSD only weights about 2mg and if
the paper itself was made completely out of pure strychnine it is still on
the very low end of Strychnine's threshold of activity"

The other documents at [ www.lycaeum.org ] are also
quite good.


> a) I understand that LSD is a very potential hallucinogen, and *assume*
> that this is a reason why it is possible to distribute it on paper
> instead of tablets. Are there other drugs which could be distributed
> that way, or: does that make sure that on paper-LSD, there can be no
> other drugs in effective doses?

> Are there any reports available on what doses or
> drugs are sold as "LSD on paper" (like it exists for Ecstasy)?
>

Yes, there is one at
[ www.lycaeum.org ] Quite old (Early
70s), and most of the data is about non-paper forms.


DOB is also active in very low does and can apparently be found on blotter,
the report is at:
[ members.xoom.com ]

> b) In "LSD - my problem child", Albert Hoffman says that LSD is easily
> oxidated and thus would hardly "survive" more than a few weeks or months
> (p. 78f, German version). However, some people claim they used
> "paper-LSD" that has been months old and that it was still effective. If
> that is true - does it mean that there must have been some other drug
> involved which is not as vulnerable to oxygene as LSD, could that be the
> result of a placebo effect or is it possible that LSD lasts much longer
> than expected under certain circumstances?
>

How long LSD lasts depends on how you store it.
(Mod. note: psilo, below, continues discussion of storage.)
------------------
From: psilo
Subject: Re: MAPS: Questions on "LSD on paper"

> that is true - does it mean that there must have been some other drug
> involved which is not as vulnerable to oxygene as LSD, could that be the
> result of a placebo effect or is it possible that LSD lasts much longer
> than expected under certain circumstances?

It depends on storage methods. If one keeps LSD in a cool, dark place,
well sealed, than the decomposition can be kept to a minimum. Otherwise,
keeping it in, say, ones wallet, the LSD will breakdown and any remaining
activity will likely be from other stable isomers with a similar activity
(but not as desireable as clean, pure LSD-25). Most users of LSD know
that long term storage decreases the potency of blotter acid, and that a
once potent set of blotter can turn into, while still active, mediocre
grade.

Hope this has been of some help,
aloha
psilo

------------------------
From: Chris Cappuccio
Subject: Re: MAPS: Special Digest: Re: Questions on "LSD on paper"

Please read the following two links, they are very informative and raise some
good questions about this.

[ www.lycaeum.org ]

[ www.lycaeum.org ]

----------------------
From: Bob Wallace
Subject: Re: MAPS: Questions on "LSD on paper"


Holger Wagner wrote:
>I have a few questions about LSD as it is sold on the black market.
>Obviously, a major problem is that there is no way of finding out which
>dose comes on one "portion".

According to DEA seizure stats, in the US anyway it's about 40-80 mcg.

>However, I've been wondering about a few more things:
>
>a) I understand that LSD is a very potential hallucinogen, and *assume*
>that this is a reason why it is possible to distribute it on paper
>instead of tablets. Are there other drugs which could be distributed
>that way, or: does that make sure that on paper-LSD, there can be no
>other drugs in effective doses?

A few; DOB is probably the most likely, which is also a psychedelic.
There are other psychedelics as potent, but they are uncommon and
probably would be more difficult to make than LSD. "Mescaline microdot"
is probably really DOB.

>result of a placebo effect or is it possible that LSD lasts much longer
>than expected under certain circumstances?

Most likely the paper was just stored in an oxygen-free environment,
such as a ziplock, or even within the pages of a book or magazine
with coated paper.


- Bob Wallace (just my opinion); bobw at [ promind.com ]

Mind Books offers publications about psychedelics;
books at [ promind.com ] or [ www.promind.com ]

-------------------------
From: Gennady Rut
Subject: Re: MAPS: Special Digest: Re: Questions on "LSD on paper"

At 12:12 PM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Edmond Kelly
>Subject: RE: MAPS: Questions on "LSD on paper"

>It is my understanding that a piece of blotter paper is only capable on
>holding 200 micrograms of any drug substance. I do recognize that such a
>claim would assume a standard size square of blotter paper so one may wish
>to add a margin of error of 20 to 40 micrograms. I know of no psychoactive
>drug other than LSD that is active orally at doses that low.

Somewhere on the Lycaeum I read the trip report (Interactive Spiritual Growth,
I have it locally on my HD) about administration of 500 micrograms of
2,5-DIMETHOXY-4-BROMOAMPHETAMINE, DOB. Experience was profound. Shulgin in
PiKHAL began from 400 micrograms and experienced

a distinct enhancement of visual perception,
and some strengthening of colors. A clean,
cold feeling of wind on the skin. felt an
enriched emotional affect, a comfortable and
good feeling, and easy sleeping with colorful
and important dreams.



No doubt it was racemate material. L-isomer is double as strong and therefore
we do have substance (substances, counting the DOI) that can be active in such
a small, 200-250 micrograms, amount.

Gennady
Simferopol Crimea Ukraine

coincidentally, this is basically the official doctrine of extreme islamic fundamentalism.

anyone with half a brain is his head would.....a quick test for lsd is as follows: drop a blotter into a few ml's of water in a small glass receptacle (eg: test tube). let it sit for a few minutes, then turn off the lights and shine a blacklight on it. the lsd will fluoresce a bright whitish blue.

i'll post a link later to a very informative document put together by MAPS (multi-disciplinary association for psychedelic studies) that discusses adulterating blotter.

sorry, but you dont know shit.

...............fuckin seriously

fuck that 24 hour dep and their arbitrary pricing scams and all their bullshit. FUCK THEM UP THEIR STUPID ASSES. i'm glad it burned. and fuck that dep across from soup n noodles too. it reeks like SHIT in there 24/7, they dont take returnables, they price-gouge....the list goes on. i'll tell you one thing though, if you want to express your discontent with these fucks, dont bother yelling or swearing or even using logical arguments; just make eye contact with them, say "this is what i think of your store:" and then spit on the floor. then duck 'n cover.

what happened with the couche tard is that they werent making enough coin to justify keeping the place open. i talked to the manager when it was closing and he told me he had worked in a couche tard a few blocks down, near peel, and that couche tard made, in 2 hours, what it took the st-mat/st/marc couche tard 8 hours to make. plus the rampant bank card scamming probably didnt help.

wait.....are you talking about ravewavers?

yeah but at least with IWS you get broken glass, smashed tables, fire, freaks and lots of blood.
[ www.syndicatewrestling.com ]

same

there was an edit button in the prev. version of ravewave was there not? and, when an edit was made, did it not say "edited on xx day at xx time", thereby eliminating the above-mentioned problem?

uh-oh, all the 100-some odd-thousand canadian women who paid for the medical procedure in 2006 are gonna be UUUUUUP-set