for the record i was being totally sarcastic.

and what gives palestinians the right to murder innocent israelis? it IS possible to be critical of israel without being anti-semitic, sure, i got zero problem with that. but when you start singling out israel for "crimes" committed by pretty much every government, then that COULD be considered anti-semitism.

and if we're gonna talk about occupied territories, then why dont we start right here, at home. we are occupying native american territories and have been doing so for hundreds of years. we murdered them, spread disease amongst them, and marginalized them. as far as i'm concerned, anyone who is going to sit at home behind their computer screen in canada and criticize israel for occupying territory is a goddam hypocrite and should just shut up.

i think we should have a 3rd party investigate the US-Iraq war, because i dont see any CONCRETE evidence that its actually happening. it's all actors running around in the new mexico desert..

SPIEGEL Interview with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Der Spiegel

In an interview with SPIEGEL, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad discusses the Holocaust, the future of the state of Israel, mistakes made by the United States in Iraq and Tehran's nuclear conflict with the West.


SPIEGEL: Mr. President, you are a soccer fan and you like to play soccer. Will you be sitting in the stadium in Nuremberg on June 11, when the Iranian national team plays against Mexico in Germany?

Ahmadinejad: It depends. Naturally, I'll be watching the game in any case. I don't know yet whether I'll be at home in front of the television set or somewhere else. My decision depends upon a number of things.

SPIEGEL: For example?

Ahmadinejad: How much time I have, how the state of various relationships are going, whether I feel like it and a number of other things.

SPIEGEL: There was great indignation in Germany when it became known that you might be coming to the soccer world championship. Did that surprise you?

Ahmadinejad: No, that's not important. I didn't even understand how that came about. It also had no meaning for me. I don't know what all the excitement is about.

SPIEGEL: It concerned your remarks about the Holocaust. It was inevitable that the Iranian president's denial of the systematic murder of the Jews by the Germans would trigger outrage.

Ahmadinejad: I don't exactly understand the connection.

SPIEGEL: First you make your remarks about the Holocaust. Then comes the news that you may travel to Germany -- this causes an uproar. So you were surprised after all?

Ahmadinejad: No, not at all, because the network of Zionism is very active around the world, in Europe too. So I wasn't surprised. We were addressing the German people. We have nothing to do with Zionists.

SPIEGEL: Denying the Holocaust is punishable in Germany. Are you indifferent when confronted with so much outrage?

Ahmadinejad: I know that DER SPIEGEL is a respected magazine. But I don't know whether it is possible for you to publish the truth about the Holocaust. Are you permitted to write everything about it?

SPIEGEL: Of course we are entitled to write about the findings of the past 60 years' historical research. In our view there is no doubt that the Germans -- unfortunately -- bear the guilt for the murder of 6 million Jews.

Ahmadinejad: Well, then we have stirred up a very concrete discussion. We are posing two very clear questions. The first is: Did the Holocaust actually take place? You answer this question in the affirmative. So, the second question is: Whose fault was it? The answer to that has to be found in Europe and not in Palestine. It is perfectly clear: If the Holocaust took place in Europe, one also has to find the answer to it in Europe.

On the other hand, if the Holocaust didn't take place, why then did this regime of occupation ...

SPIEGEL: ... You mean the state of Israel...

Ahmadinejad: ... come about? Why do the European countries commit themselves to defending this regime? Permit me to make one more point. We are of the opinion that, if an historical occurrence conforms to the truth, this truth will be revealed all the more clearly if there is more research into it and more discussion about it.

SPIEGEL: That has long since happened in Germany.

Ahmadinejad: We don't want to confirm or deny the Holocaust. We oppose every type of crime against any people. But we want to know whether this crime actually took place or not. If it did, then those who bear the responsibility for it have to be punished, and not the Palestinians. Why isn't research into a deed that occurred 60 years ago permitted? After all, other historical occurrences, some of which lie several thousand years in the past, are open to research, and even the governments support this.

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, with all due respect, the Holocaust occurred, there were concentration camps, there are dossiers on the extermination of the Jews, there has been a great deal of research, and there is neither the slightest doubt about the Holocaust nor about the fact - we greatly regret this - that the Germans are responsible for it. If we may now add one remark: the fate of the Palestinians is an entirely different issue, and this brings us into the present.

Ahmadinejad: No, no, the roots of the Palestinian conflict must be sought in history. The Holocaust and Palestine are directly connected with one another. And if the Holocaust actually occurred, then you should permit impartial groups from the whole world to research this. Why do you restrict the research to a certain group? Of course, I don't mean you, but rather the European governments.

SPIEGEL: Are you still saying that the Holocaust is just "a myth?"

Ahmadinejad: I will only accept something as truth if I am actually convinced of it.

SPIEGEL: Even though no Western scholars harbor any doubt about the Holocaust?

Ahmadinejad: But there are two opinions on this in Europe. One group of scholars or persons, most of them politically motivated, say the Holocaust occurred. Then there is the group of scholars who represent the opposite position and have therefore been imprisoned for the most part. Hence, an impartial group has to come together to investigate and to render an opinion on this very important subject, because the clarification of this issue will contribute to the solution of global problems. Under the pretext of the Holocaust, a very strong polarization has taken place in the world and fronts have been formed. It would therefore be very good if an international and impartial group looked into the matter in order to clarify it once and for all. Normally, governments promote and support the work of researchers on historical events and do not put them in prison.

SPIEGEL: Who is that supposed to be? Which researchers do you mean?

Ahmadinejad: You would know this better than I; you have the list. There are people from England, from Germany, France and from Australia.

SPIEGEL: You presumably mean, for example, the Englishman David Irving, the German-Canadian Ernst Zündel, who is on trial in Mannheim, and the Frenchman Georges Theil, all of whom deny the Holocaust.

Ahmadinejad: The mere fact that my comments have caused such strong protests, although I'm not a European, and also the fact that I have been compared with certain persons in German history indicates how charged with conflict the atmosphere for research is in your country. Here in Iran you needn't worry.

SPIEGEL: Well, we are conducting this historical debate with you for a very timely purpose. Are you questioning Israel's right to exist?

Ahmadinejad: Look here, my views are quite clear. We are saying that if the Holocaust occurred, then Europe must draw the consequences and that it is not Palestine that should pay the price for it. If it did not occur, then the Jews have to go back to where they came from. I believe that the German people today are also prisoners of the Holocaust. Sixty million people died in the Second World War. World War II was a gigantic crime. We condemn it all. We are against bloodshed, regardless of whether a crime was committed against a Muslim or against a Christian or a Jew. But the question is: Why among these 60 million victims are only the Jews the center of attention?

SPIEGEL: That's just not the case. All peoples mourn the victims claimed by the Second World War, Germans and Russians and Poles and others as well. Yet, we as Germans cannot absolve ourselves of a special guilt, namely for the systematic murder of the Jews. But perhaps we should now move on to the next subject.

Ahmadinejad: No, I have a question for you. What kind of a role did today's youth play in World War II?

SPIEGEL: None.

Ahmadinejad: Why should they have feelings of guilt toward Zionists? Why should the costs of the Zionists be paid out of their pockets? If people committed crimes in the past, then they would have to have been tried 60 years ago. End of story! Why must the German people be humiliated today because a group of people committed crimes in the name of the Germans during the course of history?

SPIEGEL: The German people today can't do anything about it. But there is a sort of collective shame for those deeds done in the German name by our fathers or grandfathers.

Ahmadinejad: How can a person who wasn't even alive at the time be held legally responsible?

SPIEGEL: Not legally but morally.

Ahmadinejad: Why is such a burden heaped on the German people? The German people of today bear no guilt. Why are the German people not permitted the right to defend themselves? Why are the crimes of one group emphasized so greatly, instead of highlighting the great German cultural heritage? Why should the Germans not have the right to express their opinion freely?

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, we are well aware that German history is not made up of only the 12 years of the Third Reich. Nevertheless, we have to accept that horrible crimes have been committed in the German name. We also own up to this, and it is a great achievement of the Germans in post-war history that they have grappled critically with their past.

Ahmadinejad: Are you also prepared to tell that to the German people?

SPIEGEL: Oh yes, we do that.

Ahmadinejad: Then would you also permit an impartial group to ask the German people whether it shares your opinion? No people accepts its own humiliation.

SPIEGEL: All questions are allowed in our country. But of course there are right-wing radicals in Germany who are not only anti-Semitic, but xenophobic as well, and we do indeed consider them a threat.

Ahmadinejad: Let me ask you one thing: How much longer can this go on? How much longer do you think the German people have to accept being taken hostage by the Zionists? When will that end - in 20, 50, 1,000 years?

SPIEGEL: We can only speak for ourselves. DER SPIEGEL is nobody's hostage; SPIEGEL does not deal only with Germany's past and the Germans' crimes. We're not Israel's uncritical ally in the Palestian conflict. But we want to make one thing very clear: We are critical, we are independent, but we won't simply stand by without protest when the existential right of the state of Israel, where many Holocaust survivors live, is being questioned.

Ahmadinejad: Precisely that is our point. Why should you feel obliged to the Zionists? If there really had been a Holocaust, Israel ought to be located in Europe, not in Palestine.

SPIEGEL: Do you want to resettle a whole people 60 years after the end of the war?

Ahmadinejad: Five million Palestinians have not had a home for 60 years. It is amazing really: You have been paying reparations for the Holocaust for 60 years and will have to keep paying up for another 100 years. Why then is the fate of the Palestinians no issue here?

SPIEGEL: The Europeans support the Palestinians in many ways. After all, we also have an historic responsibility to help bring peace to this region finally. But don't you share that responsibility?

Ahmadinejad: Yes, but aggression, occupation and a repetition of the Holocaust won't bring peace. What we want is a sustainable peace. This means that we have to tackle the root of the problem. I am pleased to note that you are honest people and admit that you are obliged to support the Zionists.

SPIEGEL: That's not what we said, Mr. President.

Ahmadinejad: You said Israelis.

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, we're talking about the Holocaust because we want to talk about the possible nuclear armament of Iran -- which is why the West sees you as a threat.

Ahmadinejad: Some groups in the West enjoy calling things or people a threat. Of course you're free to make your own judgment.

SPIEGEL: The key question is: Do you want nuclear weapons for your country?

Ahmadinejad: Allow me to encourage a discussion on the following question: How long do you think the world can be governed by the rhetoric of a handful of Western powers? Whenever they hold something against someone, they start spreading propaganda and lies, defamation and blackmail. How much longer can that go on?

SPIEGEL: We're here to find out the truth. The head of state of a neighboring country, for example, told SPIEGEL: "They are very keen on building the bomb." Is that true?

Ahmadinejad: You see, we conduct our discussions with you and the European governments on an entirely different, higher level. In our view, the legal system whereby a handful of countries force their will on the rest of the world is discriminatory and unstable. One-hundred and thirty-nine countries, including us, are members of the International Atomic Energy Authority (IAEA) in Vienna. Both the statutes of IAEA and the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty as well as all security agreements grant the member countries the right to produce nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes. That is the legitimate legal right of any people. Beyond this, however, IAEA was also established to promote the disarmament of those powers that already possessed nuclear weapons. And now look at what's happening today: Iran has had an excellent cooperation with IAEA. We have had more than 2,000 inspections of our plants, and the inspectors have obtained more than 1,000 pages of documentation from us. Their cameras are installed in our nuclear centers. IAEA has emphasized in all its reports that there are no indications of any irregularities in Iran. That is one side of this matter.

SPIEGEL: IAEA doesn't quite share your view of this matter.

Ahmadinejad: But the other side is that there are a number of countries that possess both nuclear energy and nuclear weapons. They use their atomic weapons to threaten other peoples. And it is these powers who say that they are worried about Iran deviating from the path of peaceful use of atomic energy. We say that these powers are free to monitor us if they are worried. But what these powers say is that the Iranians must not complete the nuclear fuel cycle because deviation from peaceful use might then be possible. What we say is that these countries themselves have long deviated from peaceful usage. These powers have no right to talk to us in this manner. This order is unjust and unsustainable.

SPIEGEL: But, Mr. President, the key question is: How dangerous will this world become if even more countries become nuclear powers -- if a country like Iran, whose president makes threats, builds the bomb in a crisis-ridden region?

Ahmadinejad: We're fundamentally opposed to the expansion of nucleaar-weapons arsenals. This is why we have proposed the formation of an unbiased organization and the disarmament of the nuclear powers. We don't need any weapons. We're a civilized, cultured people, and our history shows that we have never attacked another country.

SPIEGEL: Iran doesn't need the bomb that it wants to build?

Ahmadinejad: It's interesting to note that European nations wanted to allow the shah's dictatorship the use of nuclear technology. That was a dangerous regime. Yet those nations were willing to supply it with nuclear technology. Ever since the Islamic Republic has existed, however, these powers have been opposed to it. I stress once again, we don't need any nuclear weapons.

We stand by our statements because we're honest and act legally. We're no fraudsters. We only want to claim our legitimate right. Incidentally, I never threatened anyone - that, too, is part of the propaganda machine that you've got running against me.

SPIEGEL: If this were so, shouldn't you be making an effort to ensure that no one need fear your producing nuclear weapons that you might use against Israel, thus possibly unleashing a world war? You're sitting on a tinderbox, Mr. President.

Ahmadinejad: Allow me to say two things. No people in the region are afraid of us. And no one should instill fear in these peoples. We believe that if the United States and these two or three European countries did not interfere, the peoples in this region would live peacefully together as they did in the thousands of years before. In 1980, it was also the nations of Europe and the United States that encouraged Saddam Hussein to attack us.

Our stance with respect to Palestine is clear. We say: Allow those to whom this country belongs to express their opinion. Let Jews, Christians and Muslims say what they think. The opponents of this proposal prefer war and threaten the region. Why are the United States and these two or three European nations opposed to this? I believe that those who imprison Holocaust researchers prefer war to peace. Our stance is democratic and peaceful.

SPIEGEL: The Palestinians have long gone a step further than you and recognize Israel as a fact, while you still wish to erase it from the map. The Palestinians are ready to accept a two-state solution while you deny Israel its right to existence.

Ahmadinejad: You're wrong. You saw that the Palestinian people elected Hamas in free elections. We argue that neither you nor we should claim to speak for the Palestian people. The Palestinians themselves should say what they want. In Europe it is customary to call a referendum on any issue. We should also give the Palestinians the opportunity to express their opinion.

SPIEGEL: The Palestinians have the right to their own state, but in our view the Israelis naturally have the same right.

Ahmadinejad: Where did the Israelis come from?

SPIEGEL: Well, if we tried to work out where people have come from, the Europeans would have to return to east Africa where all humans originated.

Ahmadinejad: We're not talking about the Europeans; we're talking about the Palestinians. The Palestinians were there, in Palestine. Now 5 million of them have become refugees. Don't they have a right to live?

SPIEGEL: Mr. President, doesn't there come a time when one should accept that the world is the way it is and that we must accept the status quo? The war against Iraq has put Iran in a favorable position. The United States has suffered a de facto defeat in Iraq. Isn't it now time for Iran to become a constructive power of peace in the Middle East? Which would mean giving up its nuclear plans and inflammatory talk?

Ahmadinejad: I'm wondering why you're adopting and fanatically defending the stance of the European politicians. You're a magazine, not a government. Saying that we should accept the world as it is would mean that the winners of World War II would remain the victorious powers for another 1,000 years and that the German people would be humiliated for another 1,000 years. Do you think that is the correct logic?

SPIEGEL: No, that's not the right logic, nor is it true. The Germans have played a modest, but important role in post-war developments. They do not feel as though they have been humiliated and dishonored since 1945. We are too self-confident for that. But today we want to talk about Iran's current mission.

Ahmadinejad: Then we would accept that Palestinians are killed every day, that they die in terrorist attacks, and that houses are being destroyed. But let me say something about Iraq. We have always favored peace and security in the region. For eight years, the Western countries provided arms to Saddam in the war against us, including chemical weapons, and gave him political support. We were against Saddam and suffered severely because of him, so we're happy that he has been toppled. But we don't accept a whole country being swallowed under the pretext of wanting to topple Saddam. More than 100,000 Iraqis have lost their lives under the rule of the occupying forces. Fortunately, the Germans haven't been involved in this. We want security in Iraq.

SPIEGEL: But, Mr. President, who is swallowing Iraq? The United States has practically lost this war. By cooperating constructively, Iran might help the Americans consider their retreat from the country.

Ahmadinejad: This is very interesting: The Americans occupy the country, kill people, sell the oil and when they have lost, they blame others. We have very close ties to the Iraqi people. Many people on both sides of the border are related. We have lived side by side for thousands of years. Our holy pilgrimage sites are located in Iraq. Just like Iran, Iraq used to be a center of civilization.

SPIEGEL: What are you trying to say?

Ahmadinejad: We have always said that we support the popularly elected government of Iraq. But in my view the Americans are doing a bad job. They have sent us messages several times asking us for help and cooperation. They have said that we should talk together about Iraq. We publicly accepted this offer, although our people do not trust the Americans. But America has responded negatively and insulted us. Even now we're contributing to security in Iraq. We will hold talks only if the Americans change their behavior.

SPIEGEL: Do

Transcription: Cathy O'Brien's Presentation
Mind Control
A Presentation to Justice Pro Se
by Mark Phillips and Cathy O'Brien
June 4, 1996
Livonia Civic Center Library, Livonia Michigan
transcribed from tape by Peter J. Celano



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cathy O'Brien speaking:
I'd like to thank Justice Pro Se for having Mark and I come in and speak to all of you, and I'd like to thank each and every one of you for coming out here this evening, to arm yourselves with information on a tool that is being used to usher in what Adolph Hitler and George Bush term "New World Order," and that is mind control. You have a right to know and a need to know these secrets that the perpe-traitors* in control of our country have been controlling all of us by for far too long. Knowledge is our only defense against mind control.

*(Transcriber's note: Cathy distinctly says, "Perpe-Traitors". It is also a term that is used repeatedly in their book.)

I know I am extremely fortunate to have survived my CIA MKUltra mind control victimization. I know I am extremely fortunate to have survived to this point, to be able to relay this information to all of you. Many government secrets and personal reputations were staked on the belief that I could not be deprogrammed to remember those things that I was supposed to forget. They were wrong. They never considered the strength of the human spirit. They never considered what would happen when a good man like Mark Phillips found out their secrets and used them for good: used them for the betterment of humanity, used them to restore a mind and a memory, rather than to destroy one and control one.

Now that I am in control of my own mind, and ultimately my free will, I'm telling all that I've witnessed and experienced behind the scenes as a White House/Pentagon level mind controlled slave. I know that my victimization was extreme, and I certainly am not interested or intending to traumatize you with the information of my victimization. Instead, I want to provide you a comprehensive understanding of the components of mind control, and what the plan is for controlling all of us in this world dominance New World Order effort. Many government secrets and personal reputations are now being revealed. Much is coming to light in society today, because people all across this country are beginning to ask questions as to why has our country been eroding morally and constitutionally. Tonight, this information is intended only to provide you with detailed answers, so that you can be far more effective in this ongoing effort to take back our country.

These perpe-traitors in control of our country have operated on the belief that secret knowledge equals power. The more we tell their secrets, the more their power erodes, and the better our chances are for effectively taking back our country. These people that have been in control of our country for far too long are extremely intelligent, yet they don't think deep. They are limited in their thinking by their own immorality. That's where we all have the edge on them. They never counted on good people all across this country to spread information in any means available, and it certainly isn't through our controlled medias. Information has to be spread word-of-mouth, through meetings such as these, as this one is tonight, that are occurring all across this country, through shortwave radio, through various radio stations and public television. There are ways for each of us to get the information out. There are ways to spread the secrets that they would not want you to know.

As you hear this information tonight, please bear in mind that we are all enduring a mind war. They refer to it as "psychological warfare." Mind control is a psychological warfare weapon. Because it is psychological, we must deal with it in a logical manner, and that's exactly what they aren't counting on. What they want all of us to do is to hear this kind of information, become hysterical, become emotional, and listen to all the "hate crimes" that are being built up in our controlled medias, and start shooting at each other. They would like nothing more than for everyone to be confused as to who the problem is, and for all of us to end up shooting at each other, instead of logically taking this information, seeing how it effects us, seeing how it has affected us from various aspects of society, and take careful action in an ongoing effort to take back our country.

When the people lead, the leaders follow.

I'd like to begin by giving you a very comprehensive understanding of mind control through my own victimization. Although my victimization is extreme, it certainly is no more horrific than what is happening in society today, from the erosion of our constitutional values, to the drug wars being brought to our streets, to all the horrors that we are enduring through such things as Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Oklahoma City bombing. Instead, by giving you this information on mind control, I hope that each and every one of you will have a much better understanding of exactly what is going on in our country.

I was born in 1957, in Muskegon, Michigan, to a multi-generational, incest based family. My father had been sexually abused as a child, my mother had been sexually abused as a child, and they were sexually abusing me. As far back as I can remember, my father was sexually abusing me. And I've often heard them brag that he began substituting his penis for my mother's nipple while I was still an infant. This confused my primitive sexuality. It put it into an area of pure survival. It was the same, to me, as eating and drinking. It was for this reason that I was targeted as a sex slave in the MKUltra project.

Another reason that I was targeted is because in multi generational families, as the Hitler/Himmler research discovered, and as has certainly been elaborated on since then, was discovered that when a person endures trauma that is literally too horrible to comprehend, the mind's sane defense to that kind of trauma is to compartmentalize the memory of that event in a certain portion of the brain, so that the rest of the mind... (lost about 5 seconds here.) ..."Dissociative Identity Disorder," as it is now termed. It used to be called "multiple personality disorder," but that was not an accurate description of exactly what really is going on.

(Unintelligible) the compartmentalization of memory. I developed a memory compartment to deal with my father's abuse. The part of my brain that dealt with my father's abuse would actually open up. The neuro-pathways would actually open up to a part of me that dealt with my father's abuse could deal with him again and again and again, as needed. That part of my mind was closed off behind that amnesic barrier, and I would function absolutely free of any memory of that horrific abuse. I really had no place to put such horror anyway. It's not that what my father was doing was morally wrong, that I comprehended. I was just a little bitty kid. There was no way I could know that it was morally wrong. But, instead, I endured the pain and the suffocation of his abuse.

The government understood, from a study that has long since been (unintelligible), that this compartmentalization of memory should prove ideal for keeping their perverse secrets. Behind these amnesic barriers in the memory compartment is a photographic memory, because the mind photographically records events around these traumas. Most people know exactly where they were and what they were doing when John F. Kennedy was assassinated. This is an example of how the mind photographically records events surrounding trauma, because that was an event that traumatized the whole nation.

This kind of photographic memory certainly had the interest of the government, because they knew that Dissociative Identity Disorder children, such as myself, were highly suggestible and could be easily programmed photographically to deliver messages, as it were. In my case, since I had been sexually abused, I was used as a sex slave, and therefore my suggestible mind was programmed to carry out and fulfill perversions of certain politicians who did not want their perversions known to the rest of the public. They truly believed that their secrets would be kept secret forever. Had I not been expertly deprogrammed, I would not ever have been able to think to tell you about what happened, and what I witnessed, as a White House/Pentagon level mind controlled slave.

I developed another compartment in my mind to deal with my mother's psychological abuse. My mother suffered from Dissociative Identity Disorder, or Multiple Personality Disorder, as it was known back then, as well. This is why I don't really hold her responsible for her actions, but, nevertheless, she was extremely psychologically abusive, and the effects on me were devastating. I felt that, I developed another compartment to deal with my mother's psychological abuse.

I developed another memory compartment to deal with the pornography that my father was subjecting me to. My father had a sixth grade education, and earned his living as a worm digger, and supplemented the family income with proceeds from child pornography. The child pornography that he was subjecting me to was also being manufactured by my mother's brother, my Uncle Bob Tanis, also of the Muskegon, Michigan area. Uncle Bob was part of the Air Force Intelligence, and also claimed to have been working for the intelligence arm of the Catholic Vatican, the Jesuits. My uncle Bob was heavily involved in the manufacture of pornography at that time.

When my father made a pornography film with me and my uncle's dog, Buster, which was a kiddy porn bestiality film, they were caught sending this child pornography through the U.S. mail. When this happened, my uncle Bob Tanis came to him and explained to him that there was an operation going on here in the United States called MKUltra. He told my father that if he would agree to sell me into the CIA's MKUltra mind control, that he could receive immunity from prosecution. My father thought this was a great idea. He thought that the government actually condoned child abuse. He went on to have five more children to raise in the project. There were seven of us in all.

At that time, the child pornography that was being manufactured was being circulated through the local Michigan Mafia pornography ring. Also at that time, a certain criminal faction of our government was sanctioning this kind of child pornography, because they were interested in finding out which children were being used in the pornography; which children could be targeted for mind control, because they knew that if a child was abused prior to the age of five, before their minds and brains could be completely formed, that they were far more receptive to mind control. Therefore, a certain faction of our government was interested in mind control experimentation and use, that actually were covering up the Mafia's child pornography ring.

Once my father agreed to sell me into the CIA's MKUltra project, we were visited by the head of the local Michigan Mafia pornography ring - or rather the politician that was covering up all of these kinds of perverse crimes in our area. His name was Gerald Ford. This is the same Gerald Ford that went into the office of President.

Gerald Ford came out to our house, and he explained to my father how to raise me in the project. He explained to him how to manipulate my subconscious mind, because since I couldn't consciously comprehend the horror, (I mean, where in the world would I place something so horrible in my mind anyway?) I was functioning on subconscious level. The subconscious mind does not comprehend - does not question or reason or rationalize things that it is told. Information that is fed in is readily accepted, through either hypnotic language, language of the subconscious, or neuro-linguistic programming, as it is officially called. My father called it "reverse psychology," and he was immediately flown off for a two week course on what he termed "reverse psychology" in Boston, Massachusetts.

When he came back, my victimization became much more horrific, because of the information and the knowledge that my father had learned. My father began applying what he had learned, and in his attempt, he was attempting to scramble fantasy with reality, so that what was happening to me would seem like it was just happening in a dream, or it was just a storybook, or something that wasn't real. It was much easier for me to believe something like that than to actually have to deal with reality, that my father was so perverse, and the abuse that I was enduring was actually being condoned and sanctioned by a criminal faction of our government.

At that time, my father had been instructed to take me to Mackinac Island, Michigan. Mackinac Island, as I am sure most of you are well aware, is located between the U.S. and Canadian border, in essence, and it's where the Michigan Governor's Mansion is located. It is a political retreat, where politicians from all over the country meet and discuss their political agendas. At that time, the governor of Michigan was Governor George Romney.

It was my experience that Governor Romney was interested in implementing mind control into various aspects of society. He truly believed that mind control was a necessity in society. He believed in the kind of mind control that I was being subjected to. He also believed that bringing mind control into the school system would be very beneficial for teaching children greater amounts of information. The Michigan Education System ranked first in the nation for quite some time during those years. It was actually a forerunner of global education, or "Outcome Based Education," as it is now called. This was one area that I was aware Governor Romney was particularly interested in.

It was also in Mackinac Island, Michigan, that I was subjected to the perversion of Gerald Ford. Gerald Ford had been sexually abusing me for a long time anyway. It is not that he was a typical pedophile, like another one of my abusers was, but instead it was more that he was interested in traumatizing the minds in sexual abuse so that he could gain control. He's what I refer to as try-sexual. He'd try anything, with anybody, any age, any time, anywhere. It didn't matter. What mattered was the perversion of power.

Another one of my abusers at that time was then Michigan Senator, later U.S. Congressman, Guy VanderJagt. Guy VanderJagt was an absolute pedophile, and had been sexually abusing me for quite some time. Unlike Gerald Ford, he did not abuse me throughout my victimization. He did not abuse me through the Reagan/Bush administration, and when that reached into adulthood. Instead, he was sexually abusing me as a child, and preparing my mind for mind control, and for the role that I would be forced to participate in, in this MKUltra project.

I'm telling you these names, not because I think there's any kind of glamour in being sexually abused by politicians. Really, quite the contrary. I've named names in our book, "Trance Formation of America," in order that you know exactly who and what is in control of our country, and for what purpose. I realize that here in Michigan many of you are familiar with these names. There has been a deliberate smoke and mirrors illusion created to fool the American population into believing that their "New World Order" effort is an effort toward world peace of some kind, when in fact it is a world dominance effort that has been in motion for quite some time.

It was in Mackinac Island, Michigan, that I first learned some of these components of New World Order mind control, and other aspects of mind control victimization. Since I was being traumatized, I was photographically recording conversations, and I learned how people such as myself, with Dissociative Identity Disorder, were considered prime candidates, or "chosen ones," for mind control. Not only because of the compartmentalization of memory, but also because when a person is so traumatized and operating through these various compartments, they have no memory of events that had occured previously, and therefore they don't know to be tired, and endurance is increased tremendously in a person suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder.

Likewise, a person develops 44 times visual acuity. I believe it is an effort to see things before they happen, in an effort to see the trauma before it actually occurs, and the eyes are open wide, and it's as though the victims develop eyes in the back of their heads. 44 times visual acuity means that a person so trained would be able to shoot and never miss their mark. They would never miss their target, because with that kind of visual acuity they are far more apt to be able to see and to aim and to shoot, and therefore Dissociative Identity Disordered persons were targeted themselves for mind control for military operations, for military intelligence, mercenary operations, paramilitary operations, and espionage.

I was never trained in that particular area because I was being raised as a sex slave. I was being raised to carry out and fulfill the perversions of certain politicians in control of our country. And they certainly didn't want someone who was being prostituted to politicians to even know how to shoot a gun.

I also learned at Mackinac Island Michigan about the Catholic's involvement in mind control. Now this is certainly not to say that all Catholics are bad. Not any more than I'm saying that all CIA is bad. I've since learned that seems to be a criminal faction running through most aspects of our society, and it was my experience, having come from a predominantly Catholic area and being raised a Catholic, that I was subjected to the Catholic aspects of mind control. At that time, then Prime Minister of Canada, Pierre Trudeau, who claims publicly to be Jesuit, was very much interested in mind control, was interested in mind control of the masses. He was a part of that intelligence arm of the Vatican that was interested in becoming the one world church in the New World Order. I heard many conversations pertaining to how criminal covert activity is going on in this country and around the world, would be funneled through the Catholic Church and designated immune, for implementing what Adolph Hitler and George Bush term "New World Order."

It was around that time, 1966 to be exact, that I made first communion at our local Catholic Church, Muskegon St. Francis de Salles. At that time, Father Don was the head of our church, and was bringing mind control in on a mass scale. I'm sure many of you all know the Catholics have been sued for vast amountsof money for child abuse proliferated in the church. And this is one reason why. In 1966, after I made my first communion, I was subjected to what was termed "The Rite To Remain Silent." That's R-I-T-E, as in ritual. And I was subjected to an occult ritual. Occultism is of course a reversal of the Catholic Mass, and this was in keeping with that "reverse psychology" that my father learned. This was in keeping with the language of the subconscious, and this was in keeping with the incomprehensible.

At that time, VanderJagt came in and joined Father Don in exposing me to a blood trauma that was so horrific to me that it just blew my mind. When this happened, they used the hypnotic language, the language of the subconscious, to manipulate my subconscious in such a way that I lost control of my own switching processes at that time.

In other words, that compartmentalization that I was talking about, like where I had that compartment that would deal with my father's sexual abuse, as needed. I no longer had the ability to switch into that compartment that dealt with his abuse. I completely lost that ability with the "Rite To Remain Silent." Instead, they placed a series of hypnotic codes, keys and triggers in place of my natural switching mechanism, so that they could decide when, where and how that particular compartment of my brain could be accessed. That way, when I was programmed later on with specific government messages, and with specific perversion that I was forced to carry out, that they would decide when and how it would be accessed, by using those codes, keys and triggers to access that part of my brain.

After this "Rite to Remain Silent," I no longer heard voices in my head, which really was my own voice, because I used to make decisions by pulling from different compartments and perspectives of my brain, and trying to forumulate a decision by

i dont really see how you can blame alberta or ralph klein for not wanting to share the wealth

agreed!

i think theres still gonna be mad smoking at afterhours

ok but how the hell are they gonna swing it next season? 2 of them in school on the east coast then all the parents back in california?...its gonna be weird...

rw?

(this is from the ADL website)

INTRODUCTION

It is a classic in paranoid, racist literature. Taken by the gullible as the confidential minutes of a Jewish conclave convened in the last years of the nineteenth century, it has been heralded by anti-Semites as proof that Jews are plotting to take over the world. Since its contrivance around the turn of the century by the Russian Okhrana, or Czarist secret police, "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" has taken root in bigoted, frightened minds around the world.

The booklet’s twenty-four sections spell out the alleged secret plans of Jewish leaders seeking to attain world domination. They represent the most notorious political forgery of modern times. Although thoroughly discredited, the document is still being used to stir up anti-Semitic hatred.

Origins of the Protocols

Serge Nilus, a little-known Czarist official in Moscow, edited several editions of the Protocols, each with a different account of how he discovered the document. In his 1911 edition Nilus claimed that his source had stolen the document from (a non-existent) Zionist headquarters in France. Other "editors" of the Protocols maintained that the document was read at the First Zionist Congress held in 1897 in Basel, Switzerland.

Note: According to reputable scholars, including Prof. Norman Cohn in his noted book, Warrant for Genocide, the world-control myth was actually lifted from a 19th century French political satire in which the alleged plotters weren’t even Jewish.

THE HOAX SPREADS

Impact of the Bolshevik Revolution

After the Russian Revolution in 1917, frustrated supporters of the ousted Czar rescued the document from obscurity in order to discredit
the Bolsheviks. The emigre Czarists portrayed the Revolution as part of a Jewish plot to enslave the world, and pointed to the Protocols as the blueprint of that plan. The scheme of yoking the Protocols to the Bolshevik Revolution not only led to the allegation of a Judeo-Communist conspiracy, but promoted the forgery internationally. In later years, vicious Soviet anti-Semitic propaganda under Stalin and others echoed the conspiracy mythology of the Protocols.

International Publicity

In the 1920’s, two British correspondents, Robert Wilton of the London Times and Victor Marsden of the Morning Post, each of whom had lived in pre-Communist Russia, .promoted the idea of a Jewish conspiracy in Great Britain. Eighteen articles on the subject of a Jewish conspiracy as well as on the "Protocols" themselves were published in the Morning Post. Marsden translated the Protocols into English and in his introduction to the document asserted:

. . . the Jews are carrying it out with steadfast purpose, creating wars and revolutions, . . .to destroy the white Gentile race, that the Jews may seize the power during the resulting chaos and rule with their claimed superior intelligence over the remaining races of the world, as kings over slaves."

A Polish language edition of the Protocols appeared in 1920. The following year the Arabs of Palestine and Syria used the Protocols to stir up resentment against Jewish settlers in Palestine, suggesting that the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine would further advance the "international Jewish conspiracy." This propaganda tactic persists in the contemporary Middle East; Arabic editions of the Protocols have been widely circulated by official Saudi sources, among others.

American Debut

The Protocols were publicized in America by Boris Brasol, a former Czarist prosecutor. Auto magnate Henry Ford was one of those who responded to Brasol’s conspiratorial fantasies. "The Dearborn Independent," owned by Ford, published an American version of the Protocols between May and September of 1920 in a series called ‘The International Jew: the World’s Foremost Problem." The articles were later republished in book form with half a million copies in circulation in the United States, and were translated into several foreign languages.

By 1927 Ford had repudiated the "International Jew," but hundreds of thousands of people around the world had been encouraged by his initial endorsement to accept the Protocols as genuine.

The Protocols and Nazi Germany

The Protocols served to rationalize anti-Semitism and genocide in Hitler’s Germany. The myth of the Jewish world conspiracy permeated Hitler’s thinking, and he linked Germany’s economic hardship during the 1920s to the secret plot. Once in power Hitler invoked the Protocols to justify anti-Semitic legislation and suppression of all opposition to the Third Reich. For example, the first anti-Semitic measure in April of 1933, a one-day boycott of Jewish stores, was deemed a defense against the "Plan of Basel" (another name for the Protocols).

CONTEMPORARY REEMERGENCE

Anti-Semites around the globe still actively circulate the Protocols. It has appeared in Japan-where bestsellers by anti-Semite Masami Uno cite them as evidence of a "Jewish conspiracy to dominate
the world’-and in Latin America (including Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia and Paraguay). The document is also favored by such U.S. right-wing extremists as the Ku Klux Klan and Aryan Nations. The most common U.S. edition was published by hatemonger Gerald L. K. Smith’s Christian Nationalist Crusade.

The Protocols have become a major source of Arab and Islamic propaganda. Between 1965 and 1967 alone, approximately 50 books on political subjects published in Arabic were either based on the Protocols or quoted from them. In 1980, Hazern Nuseibeh, the Jordanian delegate to the United Nations, spoke about the Protocols as a genuine document. In October of 1987 the Iranian Embassy in Brazil circulated copies of the Protocols, which it said "belongs to the history of the world."

WIDESPREAD CONDEMNATION

During the past 60 years impressive authorities have publicly attested to the Protocols’ fraudulence.

Hugo Valentin, lecturer in history at the University of Upsala in Sweden, characterized the Protocols in his 1936 study Anti-Semitism, Historically and Critically Examined as "the greatest forgery of the century."

Father Pierre Charles, Professor of Theology at the Jesuit College in Louvain, France, stated in a 1938 essay: "It has been proved that these ‘Protocols’ are a fraud, a clumsy plagiarism. . . made for the purpose of rendering the Jews odious..."

In 1942, several prominent historians, including Carl Becker of Cornell, Sydney Fay and William Langer of Harvard, and Allan Nevins and Cariton J. H. Hayes of Columbia, introduced Professor John Shelton Curtiss’ ‘An Appraisal of the Protocols of Zion" with their endorsement of his findings as "completely destructive of the historicity of the Protocols and as establishing beyond doubt the fact that they are rank and pernicious forgeries."

In 1961 Richard Helms, then Assistant Director of the CIA, stated at a Senate subcommittee hearing: "The Russians have a long tradition in the art of forgery. More than 60 years ago the Czarist intelligence service concocted and peddled a confection called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

And in August of 1964 a subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee issued a report repudiating the Protocols, to which Senators Thomas J. Dodd and Kenneth B. Keating appended the following: "Every age and country has had its share of fabricated ‘historic’ documents which have been foisted on an unsuspecting public for some malign purpose. . . One of the most notorious and most durable of these is the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion.’."

During the 1980s Muslim groups peddled the forgery worldwide. The Muslim Student Associations at Wayne State University in Michigan and at the University of California at Berkeley disseminated the document. American Black Muslim groups have sold it. The Protocols were for sale at an Islamic exhibition in Stockholm and in London’s Park Mosque, and during a 1986 conference sponsored by the Islamic Center of Southern California the Protocols were prominently displayed. Based on a perverse "interpretation" of the Protocols, the Saudi Arabian government blamed Israel for an attack on a synagogue in Istanbul in 1986.

With Glasnost there has also been a reappearance of the Protocols in the Soviet Union. A Soviet book released in 1987 called "On the Class Essence of Zionism" revived insidious canards contained in the Protocols, and made repeated references to Jews engaging in "constant efforts to gain control of the world." And sections of the Protocols have reportedly been read during meetings of the anti-Semitic Russian nationalist movement Pamyat (Memory).

CONCLUSION

In 1935 a Swiss judge, presiding at a trial of two Swiss National Socialists charged with circulating the Protocols, wrote:

I hope that one day there will come a time when no one will any longer comprehend how in the year 1935 almost a dozen fully sensible and reasonable men could for fourteen days torment their brains before a court of Berne over the authenticity or lack of authenticity of these so-called Protocols . . .that, for all the harm they have already caused and may yet cause, are nothing but ridiculous nonsense.

Unfortunately, the judge’s hope has not yet been fully realized. There are still those anti-Semites and their willing audiences who remain ready to circulate and believe this fantasy of hate.


-----------

yeah in fact, and i'd LOVE to find a copy of this, they blew some of this wide open on CBC's show the 5th estate back in 1984. good luck finding a copy of THAT online though.....the canadian connection being dr. ewen cameron and what he did at the allen memorial institute. he apparently recieved hundreds of thousands of dollars of funding from the canadian government over the years. some victims of his have been compensated since then, i think...

and yeah the concept of psychological warfare dates a long way back before hitler...i think i heard of nero being interested in it..

one thing though, that i saw somewhere which totally shows hitlers propensity for psychological warfare is the V2 rockets that he blitzkreiged london with for weeks and weeks on end. he had WHISTLES installed on the rockets so you could hear them coming before the explosion. so every time the populace heard a whistle, it incited massive panick and terror and they knew they were gonna get hit...if that aint psy-warfare then tell me it aint psy-warfare......

what does a character from 1984 have to do with this?

oh hey basdini, what COULDNT you look at on the net over there? and what would happen to you in a regular case and worst case scenario...?

ok project paperclip was undertaken by the OSS just around the end of and after WW2. they smuggled top elite german scientists out of germany and brought them to america. there were many who were guilty of horrible war crimes and atrocities in the death camps. These scientists and their families were SECRETLY brought to the United States, without State Department review and approval; their service for Hitler's Third Reich, NSDAP and SS memberships as well as the classification of many as war criminals or security threats also disqualified them from officially obtaining visas. there were many different types of scientists; about 700 propulsion scientists, probably the most famous is werner von braun. now these propulsion scientists basically formed NASA and the US space program. believe it or not. NASA was started by the US with help from the nazi's. or the other way around depending on how you look at it. there were biowarfare scientists like this guy kurt blome. blome was one of those guys who practiced horrible atrocities on people in the concentration camps. he was put on trial at nuremberg and he faced the death sentence. but the US had other plans for him and they basically rigged the trial so that he was acquitted. (perosnally this blows my mind as much as anything...that the nuremberg trials were FIXED....BOGUS...)
Blome was imported to america and put to work near or at (i forget now) fort detrick, in maryland, where the US had just set up a new biowarfare division.
most of the propulsion scientists were deployed at white sands proving grounds in new mexico, where they applied their skills, developped ICBM's , and like i said, went on to found NASA and america's space program.
there were also about 400 or 500 psychiatrists, psychologists, and the like who were brought in also. apparently hitler believed that the greatest weapon to be used against an emeny was not weapons of mass destruction, or nuclear bombs, but psychological warfare. mind control, or "behavioral modification" for those who find the term mind-control hard to swallow.

ok now i'm gonna skip ahead a whole bunch because i dont have time and i want to bring this real close to home. all this has to do with the secret CIA project MK Ultra, and its operational wing MK Delta. horrible horrible things were carried out on unsuspecting citizens under these projects with the aim of learning to control human minds. there was the guy from new york, a doctor, a shrink named Ewen Cameron. this guy was hired under the project and he commuted weekly to MONTREAL to work at the ALLEN MEMORIAL INSTITUTE on mind control and the like. he basically pioneered this technique called psychic driving where you take someones personality and effectively shatter it through insanely high doses of electroconvulsive therapy, massive drug injections, and repeating looped recordings, among other horrific techniques. for example, during meetings with patients, he would record them, and later he would make a tape loop of the patient;s most self-degrading statements, dose the patient with a massive dose of LSD and play the tape, loop back in his ears for weeks and weeks. anyways the end result of all this was the shattering of someone's personality to the point where they had no idea who they were, where they were, or even how to feed themselves or take a piss.
so after this, the patients personality would be rebuilt and compartmentalized into sub-personalities. this has to do with multiple personality disorder, which is actually called dissociative identity disorder. this is what cameron was doing. he would dissociate someone's identity into fragments or compartments, and be able to access specific sub-personalities, or compartments, at will, with specific triggers, whether they be words, or a ring tone, or something like that.
anyways all this shit is available at a shitload of sites, not limited to those cracky-ass conspiracy theory websites, which i try not to frequent or place too much faith in.

there are these 2 people, mark phillips and cathy o'brien. mark is an ex-cia agent and cathy is a mind control victim from MK Ultra that mark rescued and helped. there are a shitload of videos of them speaking on [ youtube.com ] and on google video, so i suggest any skeptics check that out and draw your own conculsions on what theyre claiming, because to put it mildly, it is absolutely MIND BLOWING shit, regardless of its veracity.

oh and by the way, the protcols of the elders of zion is a fake, it was written in france about napoleon in the 19th century, then readopted by the russians early in the 20th to marginalize russian jews. even the nazi's who espoused the doctrines, knew it was a fake, but it served a good purpose for them, so they fronted it as true. i can post an article if anyone wants to read it..

sorry for the disjointedness of this post, but i dont have time to draw up anything more coherent and essay-like in structure right now. anyways i dropped enough info in here for anyone to begin their own investigations of all this, and determine for themselves. bung

you watched the finale with me. and you were wearing those pj's. and you cried when marissa died.

project paperclip is the truth.

how does it end?

The 4th Level is on right now until 11pm/ Freebass, Kidstatik and Kilobyte on the decks. tek tek tek!!!!!!

techno.techno.fm

whats weird is this is almost exactly what happened on the OC a few weeks ago.....

did i say i wanted to fight? no. i said come and say hello. i wanna know who the fuck you are and why you feel like telling me to get a life for reading and posting in this thread when youre sitting there just like everyone else, lurking and reading. seems kind of hypocritical. i know most of the people posting in this thread, and i have parties at my place a few times a year and since its a big place a lot of people usually come and we;re pretty lax abot who comes in because its usually friends of friends and whatnot. but if theres someone going around with sticky fingers, i'd kinda like to know who it is BEFORE i lose a bunch of my shit., get it?

hey flo i'll be working the door at communism on saturday so why dont get down from that high horse youre on, and come and say hello.

so who did it?

seriously. hook a brother up lee

its such bullshit. just like the rumour that spreads it seems, every few summers, that there's a guy prowling montreal clubs and parties with an AIDS infected needle.

whoops, sorry......this was from [ www.investors.com ]

EU Doesn't Get It
Posted 5/17/2006

Diplomacy: Last year, as Iran sought nuclear weapons and Palestine prepared for an historic vote, Europe insisted on trying its own brand of diplomacy. The results are in, and they aren't pretty.

The Europeans were sure that, with all their savoir faire, they'd run circles around us ham-handed Americans in dealing with Iran and Hamas, the latest terrorist regime in charge of the Palestinian Authority.

What Europeans have discovered much to their humiliation is that the Continent is a fast-fading world power of dubious might and influence.

This has been evident everywhere this week, starting with the offer by Britain, France and Germany to build "light water" commercial nuclear plants in Iran to allay fears over Iran's uranium-enrichment program.

It was the latest in a long line of self-abasing "offers" and "incentives" from trade deals to technology that the EU3 has placed before Iran's renegade regime. Iran's response could hardly have been more dismissive.

"They say they want to give us incentives," harrumphed hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "They think they can take away our gold and give us some nuts and chocolate in exchange."

Not satisfied with one disaster, the EU stumbled again this time offering a "subvention" of funds to Hamas, even amid signs the West Bank is collapsing into factionalized chaos as Hamas squares off with other terrorist groups in a blood match over control of the so-called Occupied Territories.

The EU seems to have forgotten one of history's key lessons: Helping a terrorist regime doesn't encourage reform; it only invites contempt for the weakness that tries to buy it off.

Hamas claims to be near bankruptcy and unable to pay its civil servants, teachers, doctors and nurses. And Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas says cuts in aid by the U.S. and EU have left Palestinians facing a "humanitarian catastrophe."

That's strange. Just two weeks ago, Israel intercepted a massive shipment of weapons bound for Hamas from China worth millions of dollars. Was Hamas buying on credit?

Those who think the terrorists who control the West Bank won't let children go hungry and the sick go without care once they get more aid are worse than naive.

As Fuad Shubaki, former finance chief to the Palestinian security forces, has revealed, Yasser Arafat used to siphon "millions of dollars" from international aid to buy weapons. Nothing's changed. When you hear "EU aid," think "Palestinian terror."

On Wednesday, Abbas deployed thousands of security forces in the Gaza Strip after Hamas openly challenged his authority. Civil war in Iraq? Try the Occupied Territories.

Meanwhile, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the armed terror wing of Abbas' Fatah faction, is threatening terrorist attacks against the U.S. and Europe. "We will strike at the economic and civilian interests of these countries, here and abroad," Al Aqsa said.

The EU's naivete, coming from a Continent that prides itself on its sophisticated grasp of reality, is truly breathtaking. Now that the EU has fallen again, it's up to us rubes to pick it up, dust it off and once more engage a common enemy. Same as it ever was.

Palestinian prisoner admits Israeli aid was used for terror
By Israel Insider staff and partners May 18, 2006


Israel said Wednesday that a captured former Palestinian finance official admitted using foreign donor money to finance millions of dollars in arms purchases, on the direct orders from then-Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

A statement from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office said Fouad Shobaki, snatched by the Israelis in a March raid on a Palestinian prison, told his interrogators that as head of finance for the Palestinian security services he channeled at least $9 million in aid money and public funds to buy arms, ammunition, and explosives, some of which was used by the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a terrorist group linked with Arafat's Fatah organization.

"According to Shobaki, the financing for these war materiel purchases came from international assistance, tax revenues from the Gaza Strip, customs revenues transferred by Israel and funds from Arab countries," the Israeli statement said, without elaborating.

Arafat suspended Shobaki in 2002, when Israel accused him of bankrolling a foiled plan to smuggle 50 tons of weapons by sea from Iran to the Palestinian Authority. Israel intercepted the weapons ship "Karine A," in the Red Sea. A Palestinian court opened proceedings against him but never reached a verdict.

Arafat died in November 2004. Mahmoud Abbas was elected to replace him as president of the Palestinian Authority in January 2005.

Shobaki was being held in prison in the Samarian town of Jericho when Israeli troops and police laid siege to the building and captured him, along with the leader of the terrorist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and four PFLP members wanted by Israel in connection with the 2001 assassination of Israeli Tourism Minister Rehavam Zeevi.

The Israeli statement gave no indication if or when Israel intended to file charges against Shobaki.

It named a number of senior Palestinian officials as getting money from Shobaki to buy arms, among them Arafat's West Bank security chief, Jibril Rajoub. Rajoub, no longer in office, said his men used the funding to buy up weapons illegally held by militants in an attempt to reduce violence.

"In the first years of the Palestinian Authority, we had to collect weapons from the street and some of those were bought," he said on Wednesday. "We had to pay money for them because we couldn't confiscate them at that time."

He did not say how much was paid or give details of the arms purchased.

AP contributed to this report.

i think the premise is that the taliban will just reassert control if there isn't a western military presence in the area to stop them....

so, let me get this straight, you guys are giving max shit because he's in the Canadian Armed Forces?

no, but i used to work with a company that did testing on their products and raw materials, from alot of the plants actually..when you said large valve company i was wondering if it was velan...how're the working conditions?

mdc which company do you work at? Velan? if so, which plant?

EPHEDRINE and PSEUDOEPHEDRINE are the active alkaloids in the ephedra sinica plant. they are CHEMICALS that are produced NATURALLY by the plant.

i think its easy to SAY youre joking after the fact. this isnt exactly the fun and games section of the board. and the original reason for this thread was an article that wasnt really humorous in any way. the follow-up responses aren't funny and i dont think they were intended to be funny by their authors. they were comments based on the contents of the article. i mean, shit i know what youre saying, you gotta have a sense of humour sometimes, and its true, many threads on this board usually degenerate into hilarious nonsense, but i really dont see any of that here.....

actually, are you sure about the 6-pack thing? cause i know you cant walk out of a store with an unbagged tallie or a 40oz, but increasingly, lately, i've been declining when they offer me a bag for a sixer and they never insist. i've been declining the plastic bags because i saw ads calling for people to try and reduce their plastic bag usage, use re-usable cloth sacks, or your knapsack or something like that...besides, what if you have a 24...you cant fit that in a grocery bag.
also isnt it for OPEN liquor that you can get a ticket?

i dont understand what the big deal about drinking outdoors is all of a sudden...its always been illegal hasnt it? you just have to watch your ass thats all. bag it, or put it in a thermos or travel mug or any such thing...

wow.......i mean really.....WOW

dude what fucking planet do you live on? i mean seriously...

i tried some once. in my experience it was like the difference between drinking real beer and non-alcoholic beer. effectively, a waste of money.

i have the answer. this rapid uncontrollable eye movement is called nystagmus, and its a common side-effect of drugs that tend to affect the central nervous system. check it:

Nystagmus is rapid involuntary rhythmic eye movement, with the eyes moving quickly in one direction (quick phase), and then slowly in the other (slow phase). The direction of nystagmus is defined by the direction of its quick phase (e.g., right nystagmus is due to a right moving quick phase). Nystagmus may occur in the vertical or horizontal directions, and also in a semicircular movement, and thus are called downbeat nystagmus, upbeat nystagmus, seesaw nystagmus, periodic alternating nystagmus, and pendular nystagmus.

In medicine, the clinical importance of nystagmus is that it indicates that the patient's spatial sensory system perceives rotation and is rotating the eyes to adjust. Thus it depends on the coordination of activities between two major physiological systems: the vision and the vestibular apparatus (which controls posture and balance). This may be physiological (or normal) or pathological.

An easy way of inducing physiological nystagmus is by having the person close her or his eyes and spin around. After a few spins, there is a distinct jerking of the eyes from side to side when they are reopened: this is rotatory-induced nystagmus. The degree of physiological nystagmus varies greatly between people and even in the same person at different times.

Another type of physiological nystagmus is the optokinetic nystagmus (OKN). It can be induced by presenting a moving pattern. The eyes tend to track the pattern, but snap back regularly. Nystagmus is distinguished from normal involuntary eye activity by the rapidity and repetitive pattern of the movement.

The cause for pathological nystagmus may be congenital, idiopathic, secondary to a pre-existing neurological disorder or may be induced temporarily by certain drugs (alcohol and other central nervous system depressants and stimulants, such as lithium salts, dilantin and ecstasy). Nystagmus generally causes a degree of vision impairment, although the severity of such impairment varies widely.

~culled from wiki~

me?