Paying The Dj
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» Intoccabile replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 9:41pm |
 Coolness: 64965 | I want you all to post some thoughts.
Do you think dj's in Montreal are, in general, well-paid or underpaid ? Even though it's not all about the money, I think it's nice, at the end of the night, to be given something for you effort. What do you people think about set dj fees ( dj fee is not relative to attendance, meaning that if a dj plays for an empty room, he gets paid in full anyway ). Regarding hybrids ( dj - producers ) such as Subtone, Stalker, Sase One, Generic, Rcola, etc... Most people I know think these dj's fees are absolutely outrageous ( I don't know about Rcola ). But I always say that they should bear in mind that these dj's are high profile artists who have released material on numerous labels... I think that the dj fee should reflect not only preparation time, dj'ing experience, but also the profile of the dj. What do you think ? |
| I'm feeling g.r.i.m.e.y. right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» Strik_IX replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 9:58pm |
 Coolness: 88755 | It really depends, bullshit promoters dont pay well or pay afterwards IF they can which utter shit. If I get to work and they tell me there's no work and I can go home, the government forces them to pay me 3 or 4 hours, I forget the exact ammount, but they are forced to pay.
Set DJ fees are a must, with at LEAST half in advance with a contract. If I were a DJ, even doing local stuff only I would require a contract for gigs. How many times did I hear DJs getting jack fuck all cuz the party got busted or w/e. There are way too many crap promoters out there to blindly trust any of them. Plus, business is business. As for "outrageous fees", hey these people are taking a whole lot of their time to make this music, if they can proffit from what they do then more power to them. People who think they should do it "for the music" are completely delusional. It's not cuz you love what you do that you gotta be paid peanuts for it, hard work is hard work. |
| I'm feeling sofa king we tod did right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» greatjob replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:00pm |
 Coolness: 282570 | I find it depends more on the person PAYING the DJ, a DJ's worth is shown
through his skills, and if that person happens to be signed well, you fuckin pay them what they want, if the fee is outrageous, then that's your opinion, someone else might not think so. Guillaume and I payed well over 1700$ a piece getting one member of The Upbeats into town. It might not have been a direct reflection of his personal "Fee" but that of his agents, but he definitely told me he would NOT go lower than 1500$ if it was on personal terms, simply because that's what he feels he's fuckin worth, and I personally would have to agree! His tunes are a reflection of his worth! And look at all his releases, we're talking maybe over 40 since their debut in 2004! I feel it's up to the promoter to find out such things before booking anyone, if the DJ says he's free, he really means he wants 20$ to get home safely in a cab. |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:01pm |
 Coolness: 134385 | i think promoters treat artists like meat they can just eat for free and shit out in the grass.
i think they want us to go out get their food,cook it ,set the table and make us watch as they eat. hundreds of gigs unpaid in this city, HUNDREDS,and thats no fault of the homie i was working with ,its the pussyhole promoter not cutting a god damn check when he knows god damn well who's filling the room up. or the fukkin bar owner not giving the standard 10% of bar sales over to the homies. know your worth guys.i talked all that free shit back in the day too.its a nice sentiment,but doesn't apply in the real world too well.60 bucks minimum for an in town gig,nothing less. 250$ plus gas and hotel for ontario,anywhere past that figure it out. collect before you go on,cause pussyholes try and talk that "we didnt make enough"shit . there are no friends in entertainment,just you and your empty pockets.No one's doing this for the love,this is not a Talib Kwali song,cut everyone some decent money ,or stop promoting.Takes money to make money i miss HUSSLER and afterdark events. and a big respect to those who have paid up due and proper. |
| I'm feeling merkle right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» ufot replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:29pm |
 Coolness: 93215 | IMHO there is a definite unbalance in the local dj community as far as payment is concerned. Most of the time, from experience both direct and through friends, that dj`s in general are underpaid. I think that a dj's "profile" does have a baring on their desired fee, however, it is the artist who chooses what that fee is, not the promoter. I think that bargaining can be done most of the time, but payment is essential. I think that some dj's are overpaid, but I also think that some dj'd underpaid and even undervalued.
I think depending on the type of gig, standards for payment can vary, as in, if I play a bar or a club, I always expect a certain range. And if I play at a rave or private party, the range is different. Personally I also apply different standards for different types of events, corporate fees are always much larger than public or private ones, but then again those fees can vary depending on the size of the event as well. I think the most important thing to establish is what that range is and have the promoter or organizer follow through with it. Btw, I like the fact that this topic was brought up... I have felt that a lot of promoters and organizers have had a number of misconceptions for years now, and occasionally its nice to clear the air and burry myths. The truth is simple: records don’t buy themselves, nor does equipment, in fact both require large sums of money with a continual residual investment by said artist. Though it’s easy to share music these days, there are still such things as exclusive plates or tunes, and that definitely affects an artist pricing (not to mention unreleased production). Finally, the dedication, time, stamina, research and general practice for a professional dj should not be taken lightly or under appreciated, it is an art form that is still in constant flux, but it isn’t usually that difficult to separate the amateurs from the pros... Ufot-its a long 2 cents Update » ufot wrote on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:39pm I also forgot to mention, and though this may apply to me only, but Djs should never, and I mean NEVER, pay for drinks. NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS~ In all my years of spinning, the one thing I made TOTALLY clear, regardless of my fee, is I drink for FREE. As soon as the alchohol stops, so do I... |
| I'm feeling lies wif da hax!! right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:35pm |
 Coolness: 86620 | well fucking said, Regimental
back in Toronto, even though I sometimes had personal differences, the crew of DJs I rolled with threw class nights at class venues. they always paid me *at least* 40 bucks for an hour set - for starters - paid to me right after playing - never any excuses. Plus, over the night I would get at least 3 pints. If the jam did better than expected, which it usually did, they would pay me 20,40 dollars more at the end of the night to reflect that. Then we go do a nice afterparty. In short, they are professionals who know that a good DJ should be well-taken care of, and walk away happy. we were in a crew so it makes things flow a lot more smoothly, and other people won't be able to pull any bullshit on you. if you roll solo you have to be more careful who you accept a gig from... it takes years of hard work plus talent to make a good name as a DJ, but *anybody* can call themself a promoter - gotta watch out for some of these fools and avoid doing business with em so much more I could add, but one thing I have learned... in this game, nice guys finish last. L Update » recoil wrote on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:57pm I should point out that if I felt my set was not as good as it should have been - whehter it was the gear or just my own sloppiness - I have actually refused payment from promoters
if I am gonna ask for a set fee and free drinks I better deliver the goods. |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 10:43pm |
 Coolness: 201340 | Without a DJ or an act of some kind you go from a party to a bunch of people in a room.
Pay should be worked out before playing, and promoters who don't pay should be labeled as the scam artists they are. People should charge whatever they feel they should be paid... |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 11:41pm |
 Coolness: 145315 | it's absolutely shameless to not pay your artist and make excuses like 'we didn't make enough money', especially if you agreed on a price before hand, promoters who do this should be blacklisted and not be able to book people for their events.
having said this, i do believe that there has to be some relationship between the amount an artist is paid and the amount of people they can reasonably be expected to draw to the event, artist are the main reason people come to an event, people don't come for the deco or good energy drinks, they come to hear tunes. A lot of people have been really critical of me when i have pointed this out in the past, saying it's the promoter's responsibility to ensure that the place is full, i don't agree entirely with this, the promoter makes descions on who to book based on how many people an artist will attract into paying the price for the event either at the door or presale. Promoters can't lose money on an event, it's basic economics, if the ratio of cash lost to cash gained is in the negative for too many events than he has to stop doing events, there is no way around this the price for booking someone should be based on market forces, especially for people who can get gigs every weekend for themselves. having said all this i just want to point out that artists really undermine their position when they bail on an event. A contract is just as much a comitment on the artists' part to show up and play as it is for the promoter to pay the artist. I think some artists have the idea that if they don't show up they don't get paid so it all works out in the end, it doesn't work like that, people who go to an event and the artist that they paid to see doesn't show up get pissed off and don't want to come to that promoters events ever again because they feel they have been cheated. |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» rawali replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 11:42pm |
 Coolness: 140800 | Originally Posted By REGIMENTAL911
there are no friends in entertainment,just you and your empty pockets.No one's doing this for the love,this is not a Talib Kwali song,cut everyone some decent money ,or stop promoting.Takes money to make money i miss HUSSLER and afterdark events. and a big respect to those who have paid up due and proper. Now before I get into anything, I have always paid my dj a decent price, no questions asked, no later, no excuses whatsoever (except the party that got busted... djs who hadnt played yet didnt get payed). I am totally for ethical treatment of djs (a cab home, booking fee and 3 pints minimum like liam said)... But one statement in there is ass backwards IMO... "No one's doing this for the love"... Dude.. how many promoters, throw a party, get people in the venue having great fun, great djs, visuals or deco or other candy... and then lose a grand or two... and do it smiling, and do another one three months later I'm not saying losing money is an excuse to not pay a dj... thats just fucking wrong... but those promoters who bring it fucking proper and invest (lose) great sums of money to spread a sound... if that aint doing for the love homie, then please tell me what is |
| I'm feeling dope right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Mon Jul 7, 2008 @ 11:48pm |
| Coolness: 134385 | do it for the love yo,im just not gonna call that a smart career move bruv.
and your gonna have alot of people acting like your friend in this biz and half the time you dont mean shit to them,thats mostly what i was getting at.So dont play no gigs on that love shit. love what you do just dont love having empty pockets. |
| I'm feeling merkle right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 1:33am |
| Coolness: 86620 | .
drunk post emergency edit =) |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» rawali replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 1:49am |
| Coolness: 140800 | i dont love having empty pockets... but i dont deserve to go home in the cab if the promoter is to broke to get a cab home... c'est kif kif pour moi, share the love if you have it, but share the money too or i wont love you...
that and the three pints....mmmmmmmmh three pints.... |
| I'm feeling dope right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nuclear replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 2:04am |
 Coolness: 2604100 | DJs should be paid based upon how many people they bring to an event. If you don't bring people to an event then you should not get paid... It does not matter how good you are, it matters how much you bring to the door. |
| I'm feeling nuclear right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 2:21am |
| Coolness: 201340 | And that is exactly why 99% of parties suck |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» Br34th3 replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 2:23am |
 Coolness: 127880 | Originally Posted By NUCLEAR
.. so whats the "promoters" job then??... Seriously Noah thats T3H lamest shit I've heard in a while. You of all people should know theres no way to calculate that.. turning the blame on Djs for your lazy ass, shit "promotion" or simple bad luck rolling the dice... you should be ashamed of yourself... [ fail.ca ] don't make me post it.DJs should be paid based upon how many people they bring to an event. If you don't bring people to an event then you should not get paid... It does not matter how good you are, it matters how much you bring to the door. |
| I'm feeling hr, br, fr, sr right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 2:43am |
 Coolness: 129835 | Seriously Noah,
You "book" (i.e. enter into a contract with) a DJ so he will perform "DJ services" for your event, Not bartending, flyer design, toilet maintenance or whatever else you might think its his job to do If you need to "book" a "promoter" to get people at your party then do what you gotta do, But please leave the DJ out of it... |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 3:20am |
| Coolness: 145315 | i'm with noah on this, the value of a dj to a promoter is in the people who will come based on the fact that this individual is playing, isn't this pretty simple? If people aren't willing to pay to see you play doesn't that suggest that you're not supposed to get paid too much for your services. I don't think that you should take a head count on people comming in and determine a fee for your artist based on that, that's stupid. But like i said there has to be some relationship between the amount a performer gets paid and the amount of people who will come because of him. Is the promoter supposed to just pay people out of his own pocket,
Anyway i think that this is all a bit silly, everyone knows that what me and noah are talking about is in fact the reality of things, if you don't draw people why would anybody book you? |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» greatjob replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 3:41am |
| Coolness: 282570 | Drawing people is nice, but let's say you're at one of those super raves
with six headlining trance and happy hardcore dj's? Everyone needs to get payed equally, or else it would be pretty hard to tell who came for which DJ. I mean, are you gonna go take a fuckin census of who came for who? Makes no sense bud. Headliners get payed what the agent wants you to pay. Locals are asked and negotiated with before hand, how hard is it to understand? |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» fishead replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 8:45am |
 Coolness: 75785 | imho - an integral part of being a promoter is promoting your line-up.
... and, from my experience locals are underpaid here. |
| I'm feeling new records right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nuclear replied on Tue Jul 8, 2008 @ 8:52am |
| Coolness: 2604100 | from my experience, most (but not all) locals don't bring people to an event... if the dj does not sell then what is the point. no amount of promotion would get people to come see your mom spinning at a rave and a local that brings 5 people to an event does not really help. people complain that there are too many djs playing at events... so lets say you have 5 unpopular djs who each bring 5 people to an event... well you're event is going to not have that many people paying to get in... you want djs which promote themselves by having their name on a flyer. you want people to come to your event because the djs sells themselves... sure promotion helps but the fact is a dj is useless if s/he plays for themselfs.
i'd say if you as a dj could bring 100 paying people to an event, you should make 10-20% of the money you brought in. the other 80% would go to pay for stuff. show me any business plan where a promoter can get people to see your mom spin. Maybe if she did 100 pro-bono events and the kiddies started to have a crush on her... They would probably start paying to see her spin nekkid. Until then, she's as good as a dog eating it's own shit and so are you if you don't sell yourself also. Even some old timers are not worth it anymore. Maybe at one point your were king shit and did fill up a bar or an event... But now you're old meat and you're name is as good as an old Zellars brand... |
| I'm feeling nuclear right now.. | |
Paying The Dj
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