An Interesting Take On Vegetarianism.
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:15pm |
 Coolness: 106100 | Freakanomics is a pretty interesting book. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:16pm |
 Coolness: 158720 | exactly jojo....
if a parents yell in the house to have the respect of children, you have 100% chance that the kids is gonna become a "yeller"... that's my theory on child up bringing which comes from my theory on how train dogs. some people find me weird or cruel but at the end it's work. same thing here w/ this kind of matter... Mise À Jour » Holly_Golightly a écrit sur Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:19pm yeah databoy i read it so fast/// some of their theory have been refuted... not so successfully imo... i tried to read their many articles regularly published...
i really like those guy.. i think their take on the wade vs roe and criminality was fucking gold!!! |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» bodkin_van_horn a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:28pm |
 Coolness: 40100 | Originally Posted By BETTY_HAZE
exactly.... if a parents yell in the house to have the respect of children, you have 100% chance that the kids is gonna become a "yeller"... that's my theory on child up bringing which comes from my theory on how train dogs. some people find me weird or cruel but at the end it's work. same thing here w/ this kind of matter... I appreciate this Vegans don't push their ideas on others forcefully. They often find themselves defending themselves though...and this can be misunderstood as persuasion or a challenge to someone with drastically different beliefs. I appreciate it when people challenge my beliefs - it allows me to re-evaluate their strengths and weakness. No one has yet convinced me that meat eating is a better way for me than veganism. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:38pm |
| Coolness: 106100 | Finding a diet that suits you should be a personal quest that everyone should engage in. Enough is known about human biology for us to be objective and logical and find what is good for each of us. But one thing that is often overlooked is that stress hinders your capacity to digest food.
So everyone should chill about the food they eat and be specially chill while you eat. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:41pm |
| Coolness: 158720 | seriously like i said almost all of my friend have a different diet than mine and they are the most chill people ever..
maybe i don;t have fight w/ them because even if i eat meat still once in a while it;'s common understanding that i think they have reason and i'm not... and they don't fucking break my ears w. bs because they know that i know... blablabla it's like me talking about smoking w/ my non smoking friends.. it imply that anyway they pretty much have reason... even if i still do it sometimes.. oh and also.. actually any of them are dirty hippies or what not.. Mise À Jour » Holly_Golightly a écrit sur Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:44pm it's funny i haven't read your last post databoy and both we are like taking about chilling hehe |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» bodkin_van_horn a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:46pm |
| Coolness: 40100 | Originally Posted By DATABOY
Finding a diet that suits you should be a personal quest that everyone should engage in. Enough is known about human biology for us to be objective and logical and find what is good for each of us. But one thing that is often overlooked is that stress hinders your capacity to digest food. So everyone should chill about the food they eat and be specially chill while you eat. I think Albert agrees... “It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living, by its purely physical effect on the human temperament, would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.” Albert Einstein |
| I'm feeling 93-97 right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 4:53pm |
| Coolness: 106100 | Ha! Great minds think alike.
;) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Termina a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 6:13pm |
 Coolness: 86075 | 1) This thread is completely stupid.
2) Maddox is just a closed minded idiot that bitches about everyone's personal beliefs that don't correspond to his own. |
| I'm feeling happiness in slavery right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Vegan a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 7:45pm |
 Coolness: 38755 | There were so many very unfair things said through this thread. It's I hope that everyone can read this carefully, and mull it over:
Originally Posted By BODKIN_VAN_HORN
I appreciate this Vegans don't push their ideas on others forcefully. They often find themselves defending themselves though...and this can be misunderstood as persuasion or a challenge to someone with drastically different beliefs. I appreciate it when people challenge my beliefs - it allows me to re-evaluate their strengths and weakness. No one has yet convinced me that meat eating is a better way for me than veganism. It's accepted for people to laugh and joke about torturing animals and how much they hate vegans etc, but if ONE vegan has the guts to speak up and defend it and say, "It's wrong to torture and kill animals! We don't need to!" Then you freak out and label it with self-rigteousness and extremism and a whole ton of other fallacies. My posts were in RESPONSE to a thread that is calling all veggies/vegans a whole ton of bad things. I never came on here and troll-posted a thread myself, calling all meat eaters names and stuff (though believe me I have QUITE as much or more feelings on the issues as the guy who wrote the article does, and have just as much of an inclination to post a thread about it, but did I? NO.) and I never ONCE said (through all the attacks) that "I hate meat eaters" because I don't, I WAS a meat eater for most of my life. But I've always been a very curious person and I did a lot of research (from many different sources) and have come to the conclusion that it's not reasonable, with everything that goes on in the industry today that is not OK, or natural (including taking the freedom of other animals at all), and even if it was natural to keep things in prison camps and pump them full of drug before eating them and drink the maternity milk of another species (it's not), natural does not necessarily = good. "All natural" is normally just a mar In fact, if you'll read my first posts, I specifically kept saying how it was NOT an attack on the person who wrote it, or on any meat eaters, I was only sharing things I've learned out of non-biased research. Because it counters what we have been force-fed our entire lives, I was jumped on for it. Calling me a hippy as if it means anything is silly. I have nothing against "hippies", whatever they are, but I don't think I fit into that or any specific category. I'm not calling you "redneck conservatives" in response, because it's meaningless. Call me defensive if you want but it's easy for a sensitive person like me to get defensive when there is an article of anti-me and conservative anti-compassion propaganda posted on here. Not all vegans support PETA, you can drop your stigmas now, and I vote Steven Best over Pete Singer. ____________________________________________________ I would like someone to ACTUALLY respond to this, and try to make it a reasonable response: How can someone call me self-righteous when I've decided specifically NOT to push myself on others (like, keeping them in torture camps and eating them is a way of pushing yourself on others). It's the entire basis of veganism, NOT exploiting others, NOT forcing my ways (prison camps) on others, not forcing death on them even though in THIS DAY AND AGE (regardless of WHAT we have been doing before) when we don't need to any more... (natural does not = good, though I'll point out, we are obviously as a species capable of eating both plants and meat or only plants). ...Yet I am the one pushing myself on others? Over and over in this thread, this clear logic is being ignored. So please, for the first time, actually read this, take it in, and respond to it: If I am "forcing myself on you" (which I never was, until I was attacked and equally responded with the other side), to get you to stop forcing YOURSELF needlessly on other sentient beings, and then you accuse me of being the forceful one? HELLO, YOU ARE FORCING PHYSICAL TRAUMA AND DEATH ON OTHERS, without need. I'm not "forcing" anything upon you, please wake up and realize where the force is being applied. Mise À Jour » Vegan a écrit sur Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 8:01pm oops. sorry, up there I meant to say "All Natural" is often just a marketing scheme. It's not so important though, I half deleted it instead of deleting it by accident. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 7:58pm |
| Coolness: 106100 | Meat made you into the person you are today. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Vegan a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 8:00pm |
| Coolness: 38755 | ...so did a lot of other things... |
| I'm feeling the strings right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 8:19pm |
| Coolness: 106100 | I think where a lot of peoples have a problem is when vegans try to guilt peoples into changing there ways.
Its been done for ages by the church and frankly, I think peoples are fed up. Its time to try something new. Call me old school but, I for one, would have no problem chopping the head off a chicken or a duck if it where for my meal (might even be a sort of relief seeing my chicken alive before eating it). Dont get me wrong, I love animals and I respect life. I have lived my whole life with several species of animals. I have had 2 dogs die in my arms. But food is different. The suffering, witch is a built in part of nature, is not senseless. I think, however, if peoples had to do there own killing, a lot of peoples might just reevaluate there menu. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 8:41pm |
 Coolness: 86490 | Originally Posted By DEADFUNK
anyways, hippie are hypocrites. !! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Vegan a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 8:47pm |
| Coolness: 38755 | Originally Posted By YOGOURT
1/3 of the world population, thats about 2 or 3 billion (2 000 000 000 or 3 000 000 000) that are starving right now. They eat things that you would have thrown away because its shit and you are arguing that ome food or some diet are better that other?? ..which is one of the many reasons I'm vegan. All the ressources and veggie food matter that we feed to livestock could feed the hungry people of the world instead! Livestock is an inefficient system because we get much less out of it than we put in. If a smallish fraction of the population went vegan, we could feed the hungry people of the world. While on the issue of human rights, since livestock production is the number one cause of pollution in the world (I'm not just talking greenhouse gasses, I'm talking actual pollution), if more people go vegan now, our future humans will live in a much better world too. Originally Posted By Deadfunk
"PETA" which is the organism in the u.s. that kills the most animals each year, with ways that are more retarded than any other animal killing buisness. Deadfunk, I don't even support PETA and that's not true. They kill a lot of animals, but nowhere NEAR the most. About PETA... presenting people with their issues is not a good argument against veganism, because PETA doesn't have very much to do with vegans. Many of us don't support PETA and many members of PETA are meat eaters. Go figure. Trust me I could go on about it but it has no relevance to this thread. In response argument about it being evolution/natural/designed etc. - I understand exactly where you are coming from, because this was my argument and point of view ever since I heard about veganism (which I thought was "like vegetarian, but even more extreme, noble idea but not natural, we are natural omnivores"). I do understand your point of view, completely. Over time I realised that "natural" is not synonymous with "good". Then I learned that its is completely possible (and even in some places in the world, natural) for people to not eat any animals or animal products whatsoever and get *absolutely* all of the nutrients that you would get from the animals... and now I've been finding, it's actually more. So, regardless if it's naturally possible for me to be an omnivore, or if I grew up that way, or if my ancestors grew up that way... the fact is PRESENTLY: we live in a world where we don't need to any more. There is no good reason to exploit or kill other animals for food any more, because we don't need to, for ANY of our nutrients, name me one nutrient and I will tell you where you can get it in a vegan diet. I have nothing against you on a personal level so please don't get so upset and insulting. These are things I've learned, and I wish someone had "been imposing" and kindly shared them with me sooner. Originally Posted By DrNyarlathotep
I like the taste You honestly think that is valid reasoning for torturing something its entire life in a prison system and then killing it? I love the taste of cashew butter (better than peanut butter hehe) but if it had nociceptors, there are also 10000 other things that taste good to eat instead. Originally Posted By DrNyarlathotep
Now, as far as the freedom of animals, I'm afraid of the day where all animals would be liberated. We'd have to subject them to the same laws and rights as humans and it would mean fuck-all to animals who don't understand the idea. Having, say, a bear get in my living room and endangering my family, I would have to call the cops and get them to arrest him on charges of "breaking and entering". If the scared bear attacked my family, I'd have to do nothing, lest I be charged with manslaughter (well, animal slaughter). It's a scary notion. I don't see how total animal liberation would work. Of course they wouldn't be subjected to our laws if they were liberated. The pidgeons are liberated and are not subjected to our laws. Animals like bears don't come into the city... If they did, for some weird reason, they would be tranquilized and transported out back into the wild. Fear of these things is unreasonable. Fear breeds hate and the perceived need to dominate. Originally Posted By databoy
Not everyone has the time and interest to become a dietitian/naturopath, but unfortunatly, to get a balanced diet as a vegan you have to be just that, or fill up on supliments. It's very easy. I thought it was going to be hard (it looks hard from the outside in) but it only seems that way because it's a foreign ideology but it's very easy after not very much digging. Originally Posted By databoy
An other thing, there is no sure fire diets that will fit everyone. We all have diferent tolerances for different foods we all have different neads. That's right! There are many different vegan diets for many different dietary needs. Absolutely all the nutrients that are found in meat (except for an overload of certain carcinogenic amino acids) can be found in vegan foods. Vegan does not depict one set diet. It's a very broad spectrum. There are people with all sorts of health requirements who meet them as vegans. Originally Posted By databoy
Idealy, humans should find out what food they nead, what is good for THEM, and witch ones are les helpfull and/or detrimental. Absolutely everything that different humans need is found in a vegan diet. If anyone wants to call me on that, please tell me which nutritional requirement you're concerned about and I'll let you know which type of vegan diet is good for it. Originally Posted By databoy
...its way better to eat meat than to go on a half assed vegan diet (helthwise), cus that can be downright dangerous. A half assed diet in general is bad for people, and that is true all around and does not apply any more to vegans than it does to omnis. |
| I'm feeling the strings right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 8:55pm |
| Coolness: 158720 | damn girl i thought i was talkative but it's nothing compare to you haha
maybe in that way people perceive you being forceful or that you insist a lot.. it's can live a bad taste or make you look bitter easelly you know if you start acting out too much during a dinner with friends or else.. insisting is not going to change the world... show in your actions you p-o-v & i think it's really like that you are going to achieve possible conversion in other members of society... i understand you must be a very passionate person that's why you act out i suppose. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 9:08pm |
| Coolness: 106100 | "Absolutely everything that different humans need is found in a vegan diet. If anyone wants to call me on that, please tell me which nutritional requirement you're concerned about and I'll let you know which type of vegan diet is good for it."
Do you do any sort of test? Urine, blood, hair... how do you determine what is good for who? Btw, My naturopath gets a lot vegetarians and vegans with some funky hard to treat conditions. Cutting out all animal protein can be dangerous. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Psyborg a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 9:10pm |
 Coolness: 105665 | Originally Posted By DATABOY
For vegans, the health issues usualy start showing up 10, 15 years later. I come from a vegetarian family, ate meat only a few times in my life (maybe that's why I can't digest it), and I'm still waiting for those health issues. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 9:14pm |
| Coolness: 106100 | Dont you have weight problems? like didnt you start a thread about that last week?
I would consider being overweight a health issue. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Vegan a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 9:17pm |
| Coolness: 38755 | Originally Posted By BETTY_HAZE
damn girl i thought i was talkative but it's nothing compare to you haha maybe in that way people perceive you being forceful or that you insist a lot.. it's can live a bad taste or make you look bitter easelly you know if you start acting out too much during a dinner with friends or else.. When your point of view runs against the grain and there is so much pushing on the other side, it can require outspokenness to balance it out. Especially if there is only one or two of me speaking on this side, and about 10 people on the other side, I have to respond in equal measure even though I am less people (though really, we are all on the same side :) Originally Posted By BETTY_HAZE
insisting is not going to change the world... It's the only thing that's ever changed the world. I don't know exactly how much I will change it but I want to do what I can. Originally Posted By BETTY_HAZE
show in your actions you p-o-v & i think it's really like that you are going to achieve possible conversion in other members of society... i understand you must be a very passionate person that's why you act out i suppose. Showing in actions does that too, and speaking out about it helps. Every social justice movement is like that. I think it's good for info to be presented in a variety of ways. :) Originally Posted By databoy
I think where a lot of peoples have a problem is when vegans try to guilt peoples into changing there ways. I think it's a misconception that vegans are trying to guilt people. I simply state a fact (animals are enslaved, mistreated, needlessly) and they feel guilty. That's their own conscience telling them to feel guilty, not me. I have never once told someone, "you are a bad person because you eat meat!" I ate meat and I wasn't a malicious person, just wasn't connecting my actions with my values. Originally Posted By databoy
I love animals and I respect life. I have lived my whole life with several species of animals. I have had 2 dogs die in my arms. But food is different. The suffering, witch is a built in part of nature, is not senseless. This is completely not a personal attack, but I want to understand how you think, and why: You love animals and respect life? Have you seen where all of your food comes from, what happens to the dairy and egg animals, how your meat was raised *before* it was killed? How is it in coherence with loving animals if you abuse them at all to get things you don't need from them? These aren't loaded questions or to make you feel bad, they're completely honest. I think if I can get a decent reasoning on it from anyone here, you seem to be one of the people who would be more likely do give one. |
| I'm feeling the strings right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Psyborg a répondu le Tue 27 Jan, 2009 @ 9:18pm |
| Coolness: 105665 | Databoy: AHAHAHAHAHA no that's not me! Lynzyn started that thread, I just replied in it.
I've always been chubby, but I'm in shape. I have no pain in my articulations (except after a whole night of dancing, which is normal), no asthma, no high pressure, no cholesterol, none of those things usually associated with obesity. I feel good and I'm often told I look good, so why would I feel bad about it? |
| I'm feeling en esti!!! right now.. | |
An Interesting Take On Vegetarianism.
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