yup! at least they realize that 'listening' is a pretty big part of music xD

Suing people, however, is not. ;)

I already do pay more, 'cause the common consumer doesn't par for music at all anymore xD hahahaha :p

Anyway, I understand how the system works, but it's just another issue that I won't accept just 'cause ''that's the way it is'' ... the only solutions I can think of would just mean more capitalism, and that obviously isn't working. If it was, companies wouldn't be so desperate as to start suddenly implementing 50 year old laws.

As for radio, I remember when I worked at CINQ (community radio, but still) and every maybe 4 months we had to list the tunes played over a 2 or 3 day period. The 'royalties' went to those people, while all the other thousands of songs played the rest of the time were never checked by SOCAN. So, it's still not entirely fair, and plus the artist has to be already in the system (copy-written, signed, etc.) otherwise they don't get squat.

So, once again all this is nothing more than Big industry try to net more cash. None of any of this money we're talking about ever goes to indie or underground artists.
Let's say the Club you DJ in pays a fee for having publicly played music. You come in and play Psy. You may even give your set-list to the bar owner. Not one cent will get to the Psy artists you played, 'cause none of them are on Sony, Universal, or Warner. So, what exactly is the point of paying for the right to play music, if none of the music you play is 'in the industry's system' ? .. know what I mean?

IF the money from the fees went DIRECTLY to each label and artist that was played, then yes, get bars to pay some annual fee, and I'd gladly divulge my set-lists. But, that's not how it currently works, so the RIA can shove it.

sorry for the rambling ... to end, kinda, Noah has a good point :



I guess all 'club style' music is made for crowds of dancing people, but at least a dude who makes techno knows damn well that when someone buys a track off Juno, it's gonna get played in a rave or club! And that's the whole point of the song! And the little guy is fine with that.

On the other hand, The Big Co. make songs for clubs, then shove the artist down your throat (aka. marketing) so you buy the album, and when you want to hear the same song in your fav bar, the bar has to pay another fee for it to be played, on top of which the DJ has already purchased the track. Ridiculous. Especially when that song was created for the sole reason of having it play in clubs!
But it was made to make money, not like the aforementioned dude, who made his song for art (perhaps in the hopes of eventually getting some sort of remuneration for his talents).

... damn that was way too long xD

of course, but that whole thing needs to be changed, given the massive industry of bars/clubs.
(there's gotta be reasonable reason why the laws were never enforced in the first place)

the concept works for something like movies, so that some dude doesn't charge ppl 5$ a pop to see a movie in his backyard that he bought for 10$ on dvd or whatever, i get that ... but music? gimme a break.

DJ culture has made such rules obsolete. Furthermore, poeple don't go to a club 'cause a DJ advertises that he'll be playing a particular song, they go for the style they like in general, the acutal songs by any given artist chosen to be played are incidental.

If these rules start being implemented, maybe Djs will just make all their own fucking music and the whole system of having your popular song played in a club will get thrown out the window, and then you have less popularity, less promo, and still won't get the fee moneys .. heh.

And again, these are rules set by the biggest companies, solely for added profit, and will hardly benefit the artists, and doesn't even implicate indie labels or any of the real starving-artists.

aaaahhh!! that doesn't even make any sense, ESPECIALLY if the DJ already payed for their music .. do we have to bring receipts now, to prove we bought our CDs/records/digital copies ?? Or, does that not even matter, it's like an additional fee to have the right to play music in public?

Just another scare tactic by the Big Cheese record co. trying to make up for a few lost sales from 'net sharing ...



true ... what indie techno label is gonna send reps to every rave, and ask the DJ if they bought the record or stole the mp3 ? None. They don't have 30 lawyers and a 100 reps - and I don't think they would want 'em.

SO, this is an awesome law after all, 'cause if you want to avoid the fees, then just don't play any music from any of the 3 major labels ... your plan is gonna backfire assholes! xD

ha! perfect



no worries ;) like I had said, thnx for the info! ... stupid Hollywood car-racing movies steered me wrong :P (pun intended)

I try to be as factual as possible (since I base my opinions on reality), so additional sources/science/info are always welcome, as long as they aren't handed to me with an insult tacked-on, heh.

wait ... WHAT!?

what's the law called? :how do kill DJing in one fell swoop ... ? fuck.

exactement ce que j'essaye de dire ...



First, Melo (or I) wouldn't make grandiose statements without having done some research. It's pretty fucking insulting that you'd think we pull these facts out of our ass ... but hey you don't know us so well, fine.

I gave you numbers and stats, you gave me F1 propaganda straight form the horse's mouth, the kind of thing people get paid to spread around in order to save face. It's called marketing, and most people buy into it.

I'm trying to be accepting and understanding of your enjoyment of this pass-time, despite my own opinion (and stated facts) on the matter, so don't get all freakity-fucky on us ...

I know we're having a simple conversation, but it all goes to hell when you deny the facts I present. Like talking to a creationist, at some point they just argue blindly with you (fingers in the ears singing 'nah nah nah') 'cause if they even pretend to see things from another perspective, their entire world comes crashing down -- so you end up rolling your eyes and walking away.

Which is what I'm gonna do here ...



/walks away

teeth

J'ai jamais dit que c'n'était pas chill d'écouter des courses, ou d'apprecier le 'sport'. J'dit tout simplement que c'est du guaspillage jusqu'à un certain point, plutot parce-que ce n'est pas nécéssaire dans la vie (et oui, comme beaucoup d'autres choses). C'est pas du ''fessage pour fesser'', je back mon opinion avec des faits et statistiques, et j'en apprend aussi! Et je ne parle pas non plus de ''nuire à la planete'', je parle du fait que quand il n'aura pu de Gaz pour personne, il va avoir du regret d'avoir guaspiller autant. Anyway, t'as autant le droit d'aimer le F1 que j'ai le droit de trouver ca louche.

Les moments 'visceral' donc tu parle se retrouve dans autres sports, autres activités. J'ai le même 'feeling' qu'un pilote a avec son voiture quand j'mixe avec le gear de DJ ...

J'comprend que tu justifie quelque chose qui t'interesse, mais j'aimerai mieux que tu me dit que tu t'en calisse des faits que d'essayer de dire que mes points sont invalide.

Pour les cas de viols, 'scuse mais ce que tu dit est un peu insensible. On peut pas dire que 'c'est ça qui est ça, le crime monte quand il y a bcp de monde' alors too bad .. fuck man! J'doute très très fort que le Festival De Jazz attire les genres de douche-jock-musclé-bourré-de-testerone-pas-d'valeurs qui vont aggresser des femmes. Si les faits stipule que les cas de viols montent de 95% seulement pendant le F1, pourquoi tu t'ostine? On sais très bien que ce n'est pas les p'tits Quebecois qui écoutent la course à télé qui font c'est conneries là, alors tu n'as pas à être defensif.

I don't even know why you're arguing with me on this. I think that racing cars is a fucking waste, but if you enjoy car-racing, fine! That's your prerogative. Enjoy it while you can! 'Cause the way shit is going, there won't be any cars racing, or do anything, in a few decades. (and if you tell me that oil is not finite, then this conversation is over ;) )

Honestly, I was wondering the same thing.

Yes, Basdini, historically raves being 'illegal' have had to deal with many other issues ... and at the moment, the cops are too busy to take notice of us.

BUT, my fear is that when the protests taper off, what if that law stays in place? Much like the abuse of the Patriot Act in the States, will they use that law as yet another excuse to bust up raves? An now even profit form it?

'Cause they can even now FINE people for raving, technically, though not legitimately - since a rave is not a protest, by standards of the law. But fuck, that ain't gonna stop the police from doing what they want ...

It might not be a big deal yet, but it is worrisome.

Oui, et c'est triste que les humains on besoin d'un excuse de merde competitif pour avancer technologiquement ...

Et ce n'est pas les voitures qu'on crache dessus, c'est la course! Les autres choses qui sont des problemes ne sont pas moin problématique parce-qu'on parle d'une autre chose ... sauf que, un gros truck qui livre (même si c'est pas super efficace) d'la bouffe est quand même plus utile qu'un char qui tourne en rond! Encore, j'ai jamais dit qu'autres choses sont moin detrimental que le F1, mais ça ne veut pas dire que les courses sont innocent en comparaison à autres trucs néfaste.

Honestly, I'm getting tired of the 'this is better than that, so it must be good' argument ... is that what we have to resign ourselves to? Arguing for the lesser of evils? Doesn't seem right to me.

And what you do you say to the rape victims, victims of so-called 'tourism'? Thnx for taking one for the team ?? Tell them 'hey at least they're not racing trucks' ? Oh wait, that happens too ...

I guess I'm saying, everyone has a right to be entertained by what entertains them -- but maybe we've reached a point in society, with fuel on the down-curve of history, that maybe cars should be kept for travel, not sport.

just my simple opinion.

Of course there are potential benefits, but do people really need all the glitz & glamor and the excuse of a race to do research? Seems a little decadent for developing new tech ... I know this is an industry, the races generate cash for development. New tech is great, 'specially in areas of efficiency, but then there's a whole other story behind that, part of which is still just car stuff to benefit car stuff; to benefit the companies behind them, and not always in the best interest of humanity.

And yeah, there are many other wasteful things out there; it's unfortunate as well.

I'm not an absolute car hater, I don't shit of my friends who are into cars, I'm not critical of friends who work at the races ... was just trying to add some perspective for no reason ;)

We can agree that it's a decent target. I guess we'll see whether or not an impact is even made on the F1 from the protests - then it becomes another issue :P

Justin Bieber

Ok, I did not know that, thnx! But still, better isn't necessarily good ... even if there's a limit, that's still 18 sets of tires, x 4 tires per set, that's 72 tires, x 7 gallons per tire -- that's over 500 gallons of Oil used just for making the tires, for each car. How many cars compete? How many F1 races are there every year? Anyway, you get my point ...

I realize the tire thing is just a side-note to all the wasted gas, but generally we don't realize that what goes into a car isn't just the gas being used, oil is used for every single step of the process.

So, FYI (incase you're actually interested xD ) :

''How much oil goes into making a tire? Approximately seven gallons. Five gallons are used as feedstock (from which the substances that combine to form synthetic rubber are derived), while two gallons supply the energy necessary for the manufacturing process. So if we do a basic mathematical equation we can start to form an estimate of how much it should cost a tire manufacture for a single tire to be produced.
(Source Rubber Manufacture Association) ''

So I don't think there's actual oil in tires, it's the manufacturing process that's crazy, given also the shipping and other steps in manufacturing that are taken for granted.

And also, regardless of advances in 'green' technology being made in the tire industry, what the tires themselves do (and yes obviously designed to do) is inefficient :
''Michelin, the world's largest tire manufacturer, estimates that rolling resistance [friction caused by tires] accounts for 9 percent of global oil consumption; in contrast, making tires represents less than 1 percent.''

Oil is finite, and if humans want to keep consuming/using it, then maybe this kind of wasteful pass-time (aka ''sport'') should maybe be re-thought. Just sayin' ;)

(and yes, I realize that making movies, and all that stuff that's considered sports and entertainment, also waste a ton of energy, but I mean, cars are just an obvious major culprit in oil waste/consumption)

But again, all this pales in comparison to the fact that the F1 brings the kind of people that party hard and then rape our women :/

o_O jesus christ, i din't think it went that far :(
(of course, this thing attracts the worst kind of douche tourists)

I was just talking about waste, but that's a million times worse :/

Back to the waste though (even if it now sounds tame) : 7 gallons of oil go into making 1 tire. Now, these fuckers change tires every few laps. And how many cars are involved? That's besides the fuel wasted on the driving itself. And note that they have their cars shipped to the race in a big truck .... Think about it.

I don't think people should protest and be disruptive during the F1 -- I think should protest AGAINST F1, and on a regular basis.

What a fucking horrible outrageous waste of gas/oil, energy, and money.

If that's how we get tourism and bank on taxes, then fuck it, I'd rather we were more in debt. Besides, there are literally a hundred other ways of attracting tourism, and this is by far the worst.

Just 'cause it's already in place, we have to take it for granted that we need it? Fuck that.

As for the students, at least they're finding ways of getting their point across in peaceful ways, instead of ultra-violence, which is more than I can say about any other country in turmoil these days.

Be happy that they're targeting a bunch of cars going in circles, and not making car-bombs.

(no offense to people who like watching car races, anyway I know you're into it just for the crashes :p )

hehe xD no worries, I went out to meet him to say Bye -- he drank a little too much :P

can't read Flash files -- is this on your Soundcloud?

I dropped your 'Mary Jane' remix at Bassdrive, and would love to get my hands on this too :)

that looks like Montreal ... is it!?

yeah! it was nice chillin' with you guys =)

... kinda lost you after I left the unpleasant smoking area upstairs though xD

receptacle

right on!

... unfortunately, it can also be used for evil o_O

either way, 72 trillion is a retarded unrealistic amount. I'm sure they know this, but it's a statement I guess (a really stupid one). Another scapegoat is up for a lynching.

But, no matter what happens, they'll never see that money anyway! Even if they win ... I mean, that guy's gonna have to fuck alot of old ladies to pay back the cash he owes :p

Now, if only everyone would agree to only 'steal' from Sony/Warner/Universal, and not the starving artists, then maybe music can go back to being a little more about art than entertainment. (still has to be entertaining though! xD )

Thnx for the math Basdini :)

Though the calculations are simplified, it puts things into perspective -- and anyway, over-simplifying the value of songs is exactly what the RIAA is doing!

Maybe if the companies weren't so greedy, they'd have a chance at getting some money back for lost sales, but then their greed has been the problem since even before the 'net even existed ...



ROFL! xD

hahahaha xD



ha! exactly (and good point!) ... after all that, who's pocket will those 72 trillion go into? The label's. They'll tell the artists: ''Well, you didn't actually sell any of those albums, so you get no royalties!''

j'sais ;)

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) Claims $72 trillion in damages from Limewire ...
Apparently more than the whole world is worth. Exaggerate much?

[ www.nme.com ]

The American Recording Industry really has to get their math straight, 'cause the numbers are getting absurd, in as much as when the cops bust a drug-ring and estimate the drugs' street value at 10 times what they're sold for in reality ...

I'm not talking for or against pirating here, just about the ridiculousness of the Big Wig's claims ... especially when you consider that Limewire is only ONE of many file-sharing sites/programs. I guess then that if there are 20 more sites sharing major label songs, then it's 20 x 72 trillion ??

The same logic that dictates: if one person can dig a post-hole in 60 seconds, then 60 people can dig a post-hole in one second. Life doesn't work that way! dumbasses ...

me semble que c'est son point; que si il n'y a pas de profile FB, d'abord pas tout le monde peuvent commenter ...

-avocat du diable ;)

ouch xD

but if you get rid of all the cock-suckers, who's gonna suck all the cock!? :p

QFT! :)

(ROFL!)

Useless

MADE: Listening to the records the ISR crew gave me on Sunday ! I'm so happy xD
made: getting to relax for the first time in a week.
ruined: post-Kinetik emptiness syndrome :p
made: the calm emptiness and sudden lack of human contact actually feels kinda good ...

Host1 ? nah, I wouldn't fuck him ... sorry Al! :p

nice!

Masa is a big supporter of all sorts of the scene's music -- the man has taste!
Also always willing to help, often at his own expense, for the greater good. At the drop of a hat he'll be there, and be generous.

As for Max, his only weapons are his dangerously good looks .. ;)

QFT!

So when are we going to discuss raves, in this RAVE forum?

'cause, [ bitch.ca ] doesn't really interest me ...

I think Zombienathan is actually v.2-1 in disguise! xD

xD

but that's boring too ... would be nice to have a real discussion 'round here, that doesn't start with someone shitting on someone else, or with propaganda.

you've been a part of plenty of embarrassing threads too buddy :P

this again?
johnnyclamps: ''I'll just tell people that they're doing what I'm doing! Clever!''



then why don't ya' tell the guy who started it not to start retarded threads like this?

I guess you know from experience .. thnx for another tip! geez, I sure am learning alot from you! xD

Suddenly I feel blessed ... that you should suffer years of social torture and live through the harshness of being an ass on the 'net, only to bestow your wisdom onto others so that they may learn the dangers of trolling.

You're a saint.