Because the statement is false does not make it untrue, but in a true\false question, true is not the right answer, therefore false, at least that's what I understand

Anyways I give up, thanks for listening :P

So...
As far as I can understand, there is only one answer to the question.
Linguistically-A fact must be proven, It is impossible to prove the statement is true therefore it is false.
Now false doesn't mean that the world is not a rational place
"The world is itself rational", Is a defendable statement.
I find it funny that only one person answered that, the rest attacked or defended rationalism.

What I understand is that logic is the language of human exploration, understanding and communicating.
(here is where ppls will disagree)
Do we project this language on the world or is it the language of the world?
Expecting the world to work how we understand isn't egotistical?
Is that not us just trying to replace God with our rationality?
Putting humans at the center of existence?
It is comforting to think that we could understand everything, but is it True?
Somehow I think the universe is bigger than that, we are less important than that.
But this is hardly a debate on my part, more of a feeling or belief, but I enjoy testing my beliefs even if it seams they are "welded into my brain". I enjoy being proven wrong, I may be hard headed, but I hold Truth in the highest regards.

Sure you can ;)

The question is not, do you agree with this statement, the question is, is this sentence true?

Not looking for an argument, just want to know what ppls think, it seams so clear to me.

"The word itself is in fact logical."
Explain.

Almost there...

But shane wont be :( [ forum.psyfreaks.ca ]

Lets all add noah to our msn now ;)

LOL

So you don't have any proof yet you state that it is a fact that the world is rational, and claim that I'm not being logical?
But if everything is logical, then we both must be...logical?
Maybe one day you'll understand, until then, I'm the illogical one ;)
I'm gonna go talk to a tree now, at least the tree won't claim it's a fact that every thing's provable only to not prove it.

You said clearly you could measure a heptagon's angles with a protractor and then said I was laughable because I said it was impossible

And logically I must prove the "fact that the world is logical" wrong?

The burden of proof is on you to prove that it is a fact, I do not say the world is illogic and that logic is useless. I say where is the proof that makes it a fact that the world is logical.
I have nothing to prove and I await enlightenment as to who proved that existence is rational and read that proof.

A fact is something that is the case. A "fact" can be defined as the state of affairs reported by a true statement[1][2]; or as a concept or statement that can be demonstrated as true according to the rules of logic or some other formal decision procedure.[3] Generally, the term "fact" is distinguishable from the terms "proposition", "claim", "averment", and "allegation" in that the latter terms (and their synonyms) suggest statements that are not necessarily demonstrably true. - wiki

So the burden of proof is on you to prove the "fact" that the universe is rational.
Without proof it is not a fact.

I claim the universe is not all logical, you state as a fact that it is
I have nothing to prove...
You do.

neoform says "who gives a shit what the 'ancients' thought. you can clearly take a protractor and measure the angles on a 7 sided figure."
this is the most laughable thing you've said all day ....

Thanks Flo,
Your a very rational person, I respect that
And I enjoy learning new things.

Squaring the circle
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Squaring the circle: the areas of this square and this circle are equal. In 1882, it was proved that this figure cannot be constructed in a finite number of steps with an idealized compass and straightedge.
Squaring the circle: the areas of this square and this circle are equal. In 1882, it was proved that this figure cannot be constructed in a finite number of steps with an idealized compass and straightedge.

Squaring the circle is a problem proposed by ancient geometers. It is the challenge to construct a square with the same area as a given circle by using only a finite number of steps with compass and straightedge. More abstractly and more precisely, it may be taken to ask whether specified axioms of Euclidean geometry concerning the existence of lines and circles entail the existence of such a square.

In 1882, the task was proven to be impossible, as a consequence of the fact that pi (π) is transcendental, not algebraic; that is, it is not the root of any polynomial with rational coefficients. It had been known for some decades before then that if π were transcendental then the construction would be impossible, but that π is transcendental was not proven until 1882. Approximate squaring to any given non-perfect accuracy, on the other hand, is possible in a finite number of steps, as a consequence of the fact that there are rational numbers arbitrarily close to π.

Solved as impossible,
Exactly.

π = pi

? You can measure 360/7 with a protractor? Clearly?
Measuring infinite decimals?
Clearly you are the superior of us, because I MOST certainly can not.

Can I get a reference for the circle squared answer, I'd like to see it.
The heptagon angles are not measurable, to the best of my knowledge, thus unverifiable if the form is true, that was why the ancients considered 7 a divine number since the form doesn't appear in nature, only in patterns, 7 colours etc.

How is it false that facts need proof?
Your second last answer was the only answer you've given to my question, Thank you.
Id like to point out though, valid as your point of view is, it is no more "fact" than the "theory" of evolution, the "theory" of relativity, or any other theory.

Did you ever study any symbolic or sacred math? they have all sorts of interesting unsolvable "problems" like the circle squared.
How about a heptagon? Since we can never verify the angles, does it exist?

To claim the world is logical, without proof, is not logical.
I Just ask one thing, (for the 4th time) this is my question...

Neoforms says"The world is in fact logical"

I say, that is not a fact, and needs proof to be a fact, do you have this proof?
Your sentence is false, nothing is fact without proof.

I have never attacked logic or science,
Only the mistaken belief that "the world is in fact logical"
If you have no proof that the world is logical, that is an assumption and goes against the scientific concept of the objective observer.

So is the world in fact logical?
If so it is provable,
Prove it or recant.

lol - You say the world is logical and I must take that on assumption, yet I' don't understand logic?
yur funny.

I said the world can be represented by logic, but that does not make it logical.
AND I WANT THE FACTS, can't you back it up, you said "the world is in fact logical" you say I'm stupid because I don't believe you. Give me proof like a good little rationalist.
Do I ask too much?
Back it up!!

This is the 3rd time I ask for these "facts" which we both know don't exist, so if you tell me I'm illogical one more time, I'm gonna laugh so hard I piss in my pants.

And that is the proof the world is logical?
Logic is a language that helps us to understand the world, very useful, but the world is not logic.
I've had this same conversation with ppls more intelligent than you, except they understand.
It seams to mean, you went to school, memorized all these "facts" without understanding.
Why don't you tell me how stupid I am because no one has proven to me these "facts" that the world is logical.
Much easier than giving me these supposed facts, but I guess we both know they don't exist.

Once again neoform, "the world is in fact logical"

WHERE ARE THE FACTS
Back it up, or are you full of shit?

PROVE IT MR LOGIC!!!!

Without proof it is an assumption and not logically solid.

And once again a Christian would say the same thin he takes god on faith, much like you do that the world is rational, he uses the same argument, God exists because science can't prove that he doesn't.

It is illogical to think everything is logical.
I claim YOU use logic like a religion.
I like logic, I like science, but ONLY a fool would think they are the be all, and end all, of existence.

You make so many assumptions to make your world logical it makes me dizzy.
And where is the evidence to back your assumption that the world is logical?
Where is the objectivity in that assumption?

If you can't answer that, yet claim I don't understand logic, it is YOU, my friend, that is walking proof that illogical exists.

Neoform says "the world is in fact logical"
I want the facts, apparently I was never fortunate enough to see these "facts" so if it is a FACT the world is logical, you should be able to prove it.
I don't think you can.
I think you are very illogical.

And it is YOU that claims that the world is logical, so therefore the burden of proof is on you, not me.

Start with the fact that the word illogical exists, It would be illogical to have meaningless words.
How about like I said, Half the brain is irrational.
How about infinity, that is an irrational concept.

And doesn't that sound very Christian;

"I know god exists, I can't prove it, can you prove he doesn't exist?"
"I know everything is logic, I can't prove it, can you prove it's not true?"

Your right about one thing, this is useless, you've "found" your god and look down your nose at all the infidels who dare question the ultimate power of reason"

I think "we" are claiming you take logic as a religion.
I NEED to see this logical argument that says everything is logical, otherwise it's an irrational assumption and I must assume your an ass ;)

I do think you believe in science as others believe in God, otherwise you wouldn't assume I'm stupid for doubting the almighty logic.

Once there was half the human brain (rational) that was convinced that (logically?) all of existence was like it (rational).
K, so like half the brain accounts for the whole universe, and like what, the other half of the brain doesn't exist in another dimension or somthin' ?
I don't know I'm a little lost ever since I found out that science is useless if it's not omnipotent
Self confessed rationalists who worship at the altar of logic tend to have such funny beliefs. (and never seem to be very logical)

So you believe, without any proof that everything is provable?

And that if science can't find the ultimate truth it is useless?

Sounds like you've found your religion ;)

"To contradict science is to contradict logic. Since everything in our universe can be explained through logical analysis there is no need for belief or faith. Science is an absolute."

That is the least logical argument I've ever heard.
Prove to me that everything is logically explicable.

That is my point exactly, that science "believes" that everything is explicable, I have yet to see the proof of that. If you have this proof, please, share it with the rest of us.

"science and logic aren't 'belief' systems."

I disagree.

And no I don't have a logical argument to back that up.

Actually, I do...
Science goes by the belief that everything in the universe is measurable and provable.

Crabs are free
Lobster costs money

Only Noah keeps his toy tickets (Y0-YO)

I don't think it's the same sklate park as Back to the groove, I believe it's on cremazie by metro du college

Tonight + free + next to my house + good music + good peeps = I'm there

flying- it's all about aiming at the ground and missing, it helps if a shapely pair of female legs strolls past to distract you. - hitch-hikers guide to the galaxy

90% of the worlds fresh water is in the polar ice-caps, so I seriously doubt that Quebec even has 3%, considering the great lakes and the rest of the world.
[ en.wikipedia.org ]

Just cause they teach it in school, doesn't make it so.

le bouclier canadien est pas juste au Quebec
est-ce que y parle de l'eau potable l'Eau Douces
It's only quebec books that say that
like all the quebecoise that say french has more words than english? they teach that in school too?

yeah, but it's wrong

Deadfunk
Where did you get the idea that Quebec has 30% of the worlds drinking water?
Miss-information, big time

We MUST win them all til the end - lol (maybe we can lose one)

are the hinges on the outside by chance?

I heard firemen - permit something or other

I'm sure of my source, but I don't know for how long it will be

:D

Well a little birdie told me fractal is closed until they get a permit, so this is a dead thread?