I Hate This Fat Cow So Much!
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 3:18pm |
 Coolness: 685580 | WHY did they want to gain controll of this land? Not for strategic purposes, not to exploit it's resources, but because it was "holy land" that the muslims ("opposite" religion) were currently in controll of. If jesus had been born in australia and australia had been occupied by muslims at the time, where do you think they would have gone to war for their land?
These are human-created diffrences that have caused nothing but hate and seperation of people because they teach "We are right" (hey, look at that, _W_e _A_re _R_ight) and everyone else is "wrong", and if they don't convert then they should be killed before they can poison the minds of "our" people and divert them away from our "beliefs" |
| I'm feeling warcracktastic right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 3:28pm |
 Coolness: 158760 | Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist/paranoiac but, like DrNya said, I don't think the reasons for the "holy" crusades can't be trimmed down to the simple "it's the holy land" answer.
No such thing as a black-or-white answer when it comes to human (ir)rationnality. There are always shades of grey. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 3:45pm |
 Coolness: 158225 | Exactly. Shades of grey.
The more people you convert, the more you exploit. If 30% of your people is following the muslim doctrine and I happen to own the holy land of your religion, I control those 30% even if I'm not in your country and even if you're the ruler. It means I get money from YOUR people. I get resources from YOUR people. And I get it for free because they're giving it to me as a show of FAITH. So yeah, religion IS a factor but not the ONLY factor. Christ, have you had economy/history classes? They teach you that in like, secondary 2. |
| I'm feeling toastmelba right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Trey a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 4:24pm |
 Coolness: 102755 | err 50 new posts...
- lot of you are erroneous, that is those who think belief is associated with religion, because you've failed to understand or interpret rightly the words, that is you're reasoning by inference. Inference as in... " the reasoning involved in drawing a conclusion or making a logical judgment on the basis of circumstantial evidence and prior conclusions rather than on the basis of direct observation." That is understandable because that is our evolutionary psychology and biology works. anyways. i am going to wake up now...and then... I am going to state why Atheism...( " The word Atheism comes from a, meaning without, and theism meaning belief in god or gods " ) isn't a religion, and why the some of you poor lot think it is.  |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 4:29pm |
| Coolness: 158760 | Semantics. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Trey a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 4:39pm |
| Coolness: 102755 | not only semantics.. but inference. That is very important. And sadly so when i say infer, i have to clarify how i mean to use
that word 'cause if i don't, this discussion will just go in circle. atk dejeuner, a + |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 4:53pm |
| Coolness: 158760 | I wonder where that definition of inference comes from...
DEF – Reasoning by which conclusions are derived from known premises. Term and definition standardized by ISO and CSA. I rather think that some people here are extrapolating their opinion from flawed definitions of atheism (or rather definitions of agnosticism) than inferring from known premises. But yeah, semantics again ;) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deadfunk a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:20pm |
 Coolness: 152995 | Term and definition standardized by ISO and CSA.
dude, the terms are made by a copy of a cd and the central security agency! |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:26pm |
| Coolness: 158760 | Mwahahahahaha Deadfunk ;) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:33pm |
| Coolness: 685580 | ISO is the International Standards Organisation.. You'll see on buildings of tech companies banners that say things like ISO 9002.. ISO is a "standard" for things so that everything operates "on the same page".. An ISO of a CD or DVD is a copy that follows a certain, pre-defined standard for writing the data that is established and must be adhered to for the product to be universaly acceptable.. A4 paper is an ISO-regulated standard size of paper so that all paper fits into all printers, in the same way that every 2H pencil you use, no matter the company that makes it, will always write and sharpen exactly the same..
And that's the problem with sophia's "argument" as to why atheism is a religion, she's using her own interpretation of what atheism and religion are, as opposed to their actual, universaly-accepted, dictionary standardized definition of the terms, which, if read by someone who can actually understand that a word's definition is NOT something up for interpretation, is very clear. |
| I'm feeling warcracktastic right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deadfunk a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:37pm |
| Coolness: 152995 | in the same way that every 2H pencil you use, no matter the company that makes it, will always write and sharpen exactly the same..
FALSEEE sorry but there are pencils that sharpens like hell and writes bad, and the mines allways broke... but anyways i was just joking... if you didnt see =P |
| I'm feeling promiscuous right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JojoBizarre a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:40pm |
 Coolness: 294965 | no we just read it |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:40pm |
| Coolness: 158760 | ... Although AFAIK, the ISO has never formulated a standardized definition of atheism ;) Mise À Jour » Masa a écrit sur Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:41pm And Deadfunk, stop buying your pencils @ Dollarama :p |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deadfunk a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 5:52pm |
| Coolness: 152995 | hahaahaaa
aww i remeber high school |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Cano a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 7:05pm |
 Coolness: 44650 | Here are the official definitions from the Oxford dictionary, enjoy.
Religion: 1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. 2 a particular system of faith and worship. 3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion. Atheism: the belief that God does not exist. Christianity: the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus Christ. Islam: the monotheistic religion of the Muslims, regarded by them to have been revealed through Muhammad as the Prophet of Allah. doctrine: a set of beliefs or principles held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group ketchup: a spicy sauce made chiefly from tomatoes and vinegar. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» system_glitch a répondu le Mon 30 Jul, 2007 @ 7:31pm |
 Coolness: 162490 | Now, I want ketchup. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Daf a répondu le Tue 31 Jul, 2007 @ 7:03am |
 Coolness: 185345 | j'ai finalement vue le film hier avec mon chum, et on se mordait les doights!!! sérieux, j'ai eu une boule dans la gorge tout le long, on était sur le bord de rire/pleurer de découragement! comme mon copain à dit: jesus camp is the best horrible movie. hehe
mais bon, en a voir la discution. le thread est rendu à parler de ketchup :) haha désolé pour l'interruption! |
| I'm feeling kiss me, im shitface right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Trey a répondu le Tue 31 Jul, 2007 @ 7:46pm |
| Coolness: 102755 | I would say i am a secular materialist intellectualist humanist atheism naturalist with strong antitheism.
Antitheism is the denial and opposition of theism. The other ones you can look it up in the dictionnary 
Originally Posted By JAMES
That's one definition that just happens to suit your argument. Dictionary also describes atheism as "the doctrine or belief that there is no God." Atheists are 100% CERTAIN there is no god. Being certain of something and expressing this certainty as if you had the truth in your hands is tantamount to religious belief. Atheists will not accept that others believe in god because they hold his non-existence as being an universal truth. Atheism is not the lack of belief, it is the denial of certain precise beliefs. Agnoststics (which means Those Who Do Not Know) on the other hand are open to all solutions, might be a god, might not be, might be a old man in white robes, might be a plate of noodles, might also be my left testicle. Whatever floats your boat baby. These are the people, in my opinion, that represent a true "lack of belief". That's is why i deliberately chosen the second definition of it 2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings. He is doing the same thing. Using a definition to suit his view. Which is okay. I knew that using " belief that there is no god " would lead people to inference***. Or as Masa say before " are extrapolating their opinion from flawed definitions of atheism. " The definition isn't flawed. It's their lack of understanding and examining directly, by infering using pratical definition instead of semantics. Case in point in the quote; The person infer that if you are 100 % sure in your belief there is not god, the you're in the same similar stance of those who believe there is a god or gods or supernatural. We know that religious belief is based on faith, faith as in belief to be the truth without evidence, nor logical reasoning. Allegiance, confidence, belief, in those set of religous beliefs and doctrine. Faith can exist without religion but religion can not be with out faith. I have faith that you will drive safely ( of course the faith describe this sentence isn't the same as above ). I do not believe, i know there is a God. As for the flip side, I know there is no God. So he infer that since they both have conviction and a firm belief, that Atheism is similar to religous belief....which of course it's erroneous. ........................ There is a fine difference between " i lack belief in the god" and " i do not believe in god ". I ask all of you.... " Do you believe in Santa Claus ? " ... would you say you lack the belief the in Santa Claus or I do not believe in Santa Claus? I have a feeling that most of you would respond: I do not believe in Santa Claus. I would ask are you absolutely sure? yes. ( if you do believe in Santa Claus then that is your prerogative ) So if you absolutely do not believe in Santa Claus.... then you must be religious or have religious belief. Then you and I must be in the Religion of non-existence of Santa Claus. If you think atheism is a religion, then anything can be a religion. Not believing in god(s) (atheism ) is not the same as denying god(s) (antitheism ). ............................ Atheism respect religious people, they just don't believe in what religious people believe in. Again, Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, in the supernatural. But some Atheism could have other beliefs, like philosophical beliefs. Sometime, an atheist says i do not believe in god not because of faith, nor a set of belief....He does not believe in god because there is no empirical evidence of such concept, no scientific evidence of such concept, no logical reasoning, defy common sense. Like i said before, lack of belief does not make a belief, nor a religious thought. Finally, human often infer because that is how our evolutionary brain/psychologic work ( causual belief ), and disagreement is cause by lack of knowledge in the topic at hand. In this case, atheism, religion, belief, religious belief....Great confabulation ( my new word of the day ) i must say though. 
notes: *** Inference is the act or process of deriving a conclusion based solely on what one already knows. Reference-- Six Impossible Things Before Breakfast: The Evolutionary Origins of Belief - by Lewis Wolpert Religion Explained: The Evolutionary Origins of Religious Thought - by Pascal Boyer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- " Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color." - --Don Hirschberg. Mise À Jour » Trey a écrit sur Tue 31 Jul, 2007 @ 7:55pm --Reading Moonshine's nonsensical posts is amusing. And Screwhead did a good job rebutting.
And that's the problem with sophia's "argument" as to why atheism is a religion, she's using her own interpretation of what atheism and religion are, as opposed to their actual, universaly-accepted, dictionary standardized definition of the terms, which, if read by someone who can actually understand that a word's definition is NOT something up for interpretation, is very clear. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead a répondu le Tue 31 Jul, 2007 @ 7:57pm |
| Coolness: 685580 | Wow, everything I've been saying, summed up in one post!  |
| I'm feeling warcracktastic right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer a répondu le Wed 1 Aug, 2007 @ 7:47am |
 Coolness: 92255 | The difference between people who believe in santa claus and an atheist is the same as the difference between someone who doesn't believe in god and an atheist. Not believing in god doesn't make someone an atheist. If I were to call myself santitheist because I believed santa claus didn't exist than you could start comparing it with atheism although I'm being loose with that one since santa claus isn't even a religious figure.
Basically what all of your arguments are leaning towards is that atheism doesn't even exist. It is a word in the dictionary that when cross referenced with the definition for religion makes perfect sense as a religion as much as it doesn't. The fact you can't accept that doesn't change that it makes sense. You're just saying the same thign over and over again. Why do you call yourself atheist? Why can't you just be yourself? My parents weren't atheist and I had to go to church on christmas eve and I hated it just as much as everyone else but I'd much rather do that than not have any holidays at all. My friend has atheist parents so they don't celebrate any holidays, no christmas, no halloween, nothing except for new years. Which means she has to stay home with her family on new years while all her friends are out having fun. Why would anyone feel the need to boycott a holiday just because they don't believe in it? Who believes in it anyway? Like 1% of the poplation? Nobody fuckign believes in it in the first place they just wanna get drunk and eat food and take teh oppurtunity to be with their families who most people don't see often. There's not much better to do on christmas anyway, everything closed, everyones with their famileis. What about the children? It's not me who's changing the definition. The definition doesn't say "it's a religion" or "it's not a relgion", that's what cross-referencing is for. Mise À Jour » moondancer a écrit sur Wed 1 Aug, 2007 @ 7:52am You're just getting yourselves confused with the irony of it. |
| I'm feeling bored right now.. | |
I Hate This Fat Cow So Much!
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