y'know, I've always hated Trent as a singer, but always repsoected his business-man mind. Though I'm not capitalistic, he's good at that kind of thing. He makes great points, but as he says, his whole point is that shit is a bit fuckered, and even he can't think of a viable solution.

And, well, he pretty much says the same thing I was saying, we need a new business model. We need a way of pleasing the artists and the audience. Who's left out? The middle man, the record companies. Now, either THEY come up with a good idea, or get cut out of the deal. But I'm sure there's a way to keep Indie Labels, who tend to be style oriented and therefore a great reference to the type of music you love, to keep the artists happy and alive with a liveable income, and to keep the audience happy with readily available music, free or not. Along with that, material to balance out the income, as always, like concerts, merchandise, special packaging for physical discs, etc.

Just because artists make music for love of it, doesn't mean they should starve to death just 'cause they have a psychological fuck that make them addicted to creating things.

So, people should stop arguing about right and wrong, and just find a damn solution before it all gets way out of hand.

Bridge

Are you saying ... party at your house next weekend? :P

- - - -

** OCDj : Obsessive Compulsive Disc Jockey

Legendary indeed! And we can't wait to have you guys down! Gonna be massive =)

Anyway, the real money is in MERCHANDISING! ;)

... and relax guys, I hate it when friends fight :/

1. Start record label
2. Sign artists
3. ???
4. Profit

:P :P :P

** Caffeine induced wall-of-text **



I'm supposed to be on a promo-copy mailing list?? SWEET! xD
(I'll PM you)

...

Btw, Pirates stole. They didn't go on a boat and make copies of everything and then leave :p
But I get it - Internet Piracy. On the other hand, every single CD/Record/DVD is a copy of the master anyway, so ... o_O
However, I think the point isn't whether you physically steal something, it's: a) if you profit from someone else's hard work/art. b) if you hinder the sales of said work/art.

point a) is indisputable ... if you take my song and distribute it on a site that charges $$ for membership while I'm eating dry toast, fuck you. But, what I want isn't for you to get arrested or used as a scape-goat, what I want to see you you not making money on my art (if I'm not, and didn't agree to your distribution), that's all. Point b) is a little more vague and hard to prove. It all goes back to the question, IF people DLing are potential buyers or not, ie:



A DJ who plays sets comprised ONLY of DLed material (and gets well paid for gigs), for shame! If a DJ plays a few choice tunes they didn't pay for, for whatever reason, it's IMO acceptable. Again, it's all in the honor. You have to trust people to have honest reasons for pirating a track, and are otherwise investing in music. But, like I alluded to earlier, PEOPLE SUCK and of course some people will be weak and lame enough to steal form their neighbors/people who can't afford to be robbed.

Sales of physical copies are probably down, so, the entertainment industry will have to get creative if they want to keep doing their thing.

That's the real issue; if given the technology we currently have, can businesses come up with a new model? If a band like Radiohead can release their album digitally and accept any amount of cash as a donation, can other bands successfully do it to? Have we come to an age where with the power of the internet we can destroy the Pop-music-industry-culture-of-greed-through-art and keep in place the independent labels we support? Can we create the musical equivalent of Linux (free ware) vs. Windows/Apple (bling bling) ?

Honestly, most of us who aren't selling songs can only speculate. Only the labels and album-selling musicians can know for sure. the best studies could potentially come from the major-recording industry, but unfortunately they cover up the real science with tradionalist/puritain/conservative views and hidden agendas ...

I for one would really like to see real numbers and finally know the truth behind: who profits from from pirating, who is really losing money, and if the amount is in fact worrisome or not, and how many careers are helped or ruined by free sharing of information and music, and at what tier of the GLOBAL music industry those careers stand (ie. independent or major or none), and finally if the new format for selling music (digitally) is better or worse or equal.

I'm all for the vast, simple, and affordable distribution of music. I think every person should have access to the music that makes them happy. But I'm also for the producers getting a remuneration (ie. motivation!) for their talents. I'm against other people profiting from a person's art, and this includes major labels abusing their 'musicians' (read 'pop singers' with no discernible talent and too much auto-tune) for a big chunk of the money made. This also includes sites that charge you for "free" music.

Musicians need to eat dammit! And they shouldn't have to flip burgers and waste precious time they should be spending on making more cool tunes! xD

And the small labels that support creativity and original music should also be rewarded and make enough money to continue distributing their artists' art. Without dedicated small independent labels, we have to sift through a million myspace pages to find the music we like! :p

"Freedom isn't free ... it costs a buck o' five" - south park

Ripper

Fixed :P

But you're right about ppl wanting more out of their physical products. Bands like Tool hit the mark with funky album art concepts, and some producers/labels offer picture discs, which are very special and cool. Some big-ass multinational label will just stick a pic of the singer's face on the cover then wonder why ppl don't give a fuck about owning the album. Even DVDs have special features n' shit and bonuses, to add to the marketing of the product.

Value is in rarity, so having a rare record is so much funner than having the shitty mp3.

It might still be early to freak out on the subject, I mean, there's still a decent market out there ...

See, THAT is a problem. I don't have issues with free shit, as sad as it is that hard working artists might lose a bit o' cash, but when someone else PROFITS from your art, that's not cool!

DL a track you like to listen to sometimes, fine. Whacth some youtube before deciding to buy an album, excellent. Charging people to allow them to DL the track, that's not just stealing, that's re-selling stolen items. It's one thing to steal bread when you're hungry, it's another thing to steal bread and sell it to those who are hungry.

And this leads back to the Internet providers. People DL shit for free, but they're still paying for the 'net! So, the providers are the ones making profit form 'stolen' shit. Now there's something in place that decries that the providers have to pay a % to the companies who run the Entertainment Industry, so they can get some money back (if the rumor is true). BUT, that still doesn't mean anything gets back to the artist, once again its the big corporation profiting. AND, no small label has the power to get in on that action. So, no matter what, they still get fucked.

In Europe, I believe that alot of artists actually do live off their art, and some who have jobs on the side are usually in the field of music. I find it sad that here we have to work at a fuckin' cafe or be stuck on welfare 'cause we're producers.

Side note, I find ironic that back in the days a DJ got sent free material (dubplates, promos, etc.) by the labels to push their sound, and today DJs seem to be the only people still buying records. The tables have turned (pun intended). Despite the fact that there are a bunch of youngens playing cheap pirated MP3s, DJs are probably the people that support underground labels the most. And the funny thing is, we don't complain about having to buy stuff. It's even become a statement of principles.

So, what are we do to? Blame the internet? blame the poor kids? blame the lazy bastards? blame companies for not putting out physical material worth paying for? blame society for what it's become?
We can also simply go with the flow and adapt to the current. Example, things like Beatport and Juno selling digital material for a low price is a step in the right direction.

The alternative is the bullshit that's going on. Internet fascism, backed by the giant corporations that are rooted in greed and who's traditionalist views want us to keep piling up junk instead of using the technology THEY created that saves us time, money, and space. If only people were cool about what they share -- but fuck, we have people that steal form their neighbors instead of shoplifting at Wal-Mart, so there ain't much hope my friends, sorry!

I have a feeling there are too many points-of-view, and society as a whole will never be able to come to grips with the chaos the internet has created for the traditional business.



hahaha xD Quelle image!

PS. Gen, j'ai tellement jouer "Fuck The System" a bassdrive le moi passer =D
-- et oui, j'l'ai acheter sur Juno :p (bon, Frank l'a acheter pour moi, mais, t'sais .. xD )

hehe .. I guess better than worse makes it awesome :p



Tried alot of shit, but neither of those two.
I've tripped enough to know what being high is, I really don't have to experiment with every single substance available ;)

One of the problems with the issue is that people don't (or simply can't due to not being properly informed) know the difference between the 3 tiers of musicians, all of whom have a different POV ...

1. The major label recording artist. (Big label = Big money, pure business, doesn't giva a fuck about innovation in music, pays people to work hard - wants to sell and profit from everything they possibly can)

2. Artists signed to, or have releases on, independant labels. (Small label = Profits little, tries to survive, offers different music for the love of it, everyone invloved works hard - wants people to buy their records and support their artists & music style so they can continue contributing to their scene and producers)

3. Independant artists. (No label = All free shit, hopes to get noticed, likes making music, dedicated to their art - probably doesn't mind pirating and people sharing their stuff, mostly 'cause they have no physical product to sell anyway)

If you know about the artist you want tunes from, it makes sense to me to: steal from 1, buy from 2, and share 3.

Unfortunately, these Internet Bills they want to pass are lobbied by the big corporations, probably won't help the little guys, and just create problems for independants that just want to spread their art. One also has to understand that, IMO, just 'cause someone is poor, does not mean they should be denied access to art. In other words, I have issues with people who can afford stuff, but steal 'cause they're cheap and it's easy, not beacuse they have to.

All that said, if you want free music, get it form the people who offer it for free. There are plenty, and we've reached a point in music production where free does not equal shitty. Support the labels that put out the music you love, by buying a 15$ record, a 20$ CD, or a 2$ MP3. Go to shows that present these artists. Buy a fuckin' T-shirt or something at least xD

These anti-piracy-whatever laws they want to put into place are more about control than theft. The ginormous companies want to rape the industry, and believe me, they're probably just as pissed about piracy as they are about small labels that are selling stuff they can't even comprehend ...

Why, thank you, sir! ;)

(and you're right after all, this winter isn't so bad so far! xD )

Only 2 months to wait patiently for some wicked Hardcore and tons o' bass kicks!!

some do, some don't, some only DL a fraction of their tunes for playing .. when you see a DJ bring a crate of records to a gig, there's a pretty damn good chance they're not stolen! ;)

For movies, well, maybe if Hollywood didn't spend 200 million $ on making a shit movie, they wouldn't lose as much cash to pirating ... heh.

Poutine!

(well, what else were you expecting? :p )

since when do you smoke Fred?

awesome!

ah, si tu parle uniquement de photo-self-promo, ok -- mais eux ils ont aussi des photos sur le 'net (discogs, myspace, wtv) pis j'suis sur qu'ils essayent d'avoir l'air pro sur leur pics ;)

pis, peter paul ruben, il s'est fait des self-portraits -- quoi de plus self-promo qu'ca? :P



Mais, j'suis d'acc, l'art devrait parler pour lui meme ... malheureusement, le monde aime mettre un face sur leur artistes preferes...

Autrement dit, Slipknot aurait ete un meilleur exemple xD

hey, il te resemble =D

HAHA!! That's from Jesus Camp (very creepy documentary about Evangelical Baptist kids) but with the colors and strobe effect added -- too funny! xD

All

Mais, Mickos, du self-promo c'est normale -- si t'attend que quelqu'un d'autre le fait pour toi, tu va attendre fuckin' longtemps ;)

Les 'grands' artistes payent quelqu'un d'autre pour le faire, c'est pas mal la meme affaire t'sais, heh.

yep, probably -- but saying one thing is worse doesn't make the other thing good ;)

I really like Chomsky ... thnx for the vid DynV

Guess it's just me that finds chicks sexier when they can move and talk, heh.



No, never. I don't usually condemn drugs, but this is one who's means can used for very sick ends, and it would be best to keep it out of the reach of degenerate assholes.

One of the reasons I got laid-off of a job was 'cause I found empty phials of GHB around the bar (and you should all know 'juice' is very dangerous when mixed with alcohol, and having some in a bar doesn't make a very good impression on the female clientele), and so I criticized the head-of-security for not doing his fucking job.

So fuck GHB, and if you're using it for personal consumption only, fine, but keep it away from the bar scene, keep it safe, and be clear about it when offering it to others. Spiking ppl's drinks isn't an urban myth, it does happen, and it's pretty fuckin' uncool.

So, in a way I was right :p

... but seriously, not cool :/

I assume the person asking is not a rapist (otherwise they wouldn't advertise their needs here) but I doubt anyone is gonna help 'em find such a disreputable drug on this site. At least, I hope not.

I know ppl can use it for personal consumption, but fuck, with it's other stereotypical uses it shouldn't even be in circulation. There are other better drugs to get your rocks off ...
ie. Mary-Jane is alot hotter that Gina .. heh.

"The IRI is used to temporarily excite a limited area of the ionosphere. Other instruments, such as a VHF and a UHF radar, a fluxgate magnetometer, a digisonde, and an induction magnetometer, are used to study the physical processes that occur in the excited region."

They're fingering the sky with sound? xD

computer

sounds travels and carries, echoing, reverberating ... those sounds could be from any source, then picked up by the camera mic. In the mountains, could be tumbling rocks, in the open field probably wind through the mic, in Costa Rica sounds like some dude in that shack wee see is listening to music, and in the forest could be electric saws from somewhere far off ... some as you say, are probably faked (which is more than easy to do with the technology we have)

They are creepy, but most organic sounds are -- as they are non-melodic.

The sounds are also different from one place to another, so if it was some UFO invasion, they should all sound similar.

Cool n' creepy, but I remain skeptical until I see proof of what is making those various sounds!

potato

Actually I was talking about BassDrive ...

There are usually alot of BassDrive pics ... guess the ones of me didn't turn out -- probably 'cause I was in 'em :p

ah dude! nasty! xD

Maybe he forgot to write the 'va' at the beginning of the word .. :p

haha! xD yeah, all the pics of me mixing I have my head at the same angle, looking the same way

I do dance and go crazy during sets too, but then I guess, like Melo says, I move TOO much !



hehehe ... we're a generation of ghost DJs now! :p

-''who was that kick-ass dj last night?''
-'' I don't know, all I saw was a blur, and there aren't any pics''

xD

Now I hear there's another source of shit k ...

Seriously, consider laying of the stuff for a while if you don't have a trustworthy plug ... shit is getting dangerous o_O

Sweet!

hahaha xD

yeah, Hardcore Montreal, not Winnipeg :P

Besides, freezing my balls off isn't hardcore, it's weak! ;)

very cool Flo :)

I've seen it happen .. kinda lame imo :p

When I played Bassdrive a few weeks ago, there were at least 3 photographers (that I saw) and yet not one pic (at least not on FB) of me mixing o_O ... I was a little disappointed! Guess that's what I get for being a punk xD



right on! =)

Everyone is a professional something or other these days ... photographer, Dj, producer, promoter ...

What ever happened to being a professional party animal/raver/clubber/alcoholic? xD

I wonder how many nights you have to get into for free before a camera becomes a worthwhile investment ... :p

prize