If You'Re Not Voting For The Bloc Quebecois Read This
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 2:49am |
 Coolness: 158845 | i know you hate mah video posting and shit basdini but i still pick you anytime in my team for my forensics class. pweeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssse?! haha |
| I'm feeling hitched right now.. | |
| Neutral [0]Toggle ReplyLink» Gamos replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 3:03am |
 Coolness: 93605 | Originally Posted By THE.NEOFORM
[ www.monvote.qc.ca ] make sure you're registered, if you aren't, get registered and make sure not to vote for the Bloc. Its parti quebecois...what are you? Fucking retarded? |
| I'm feeling empty right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Shindy replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 8:18am |
 Coolness: 171950 | Basdini: wow! :) |
| I'm feeling gabber bitch right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 9:48am |
 Coolness: 339775 | Originally Posted By BASDINI
notice something about your examples here, you re taking the situation of voting in a legislature and trying to extrapalate it to a direct democratic question posed to the people itself (that's the definition of a referendum), you can't really do this, if you could you would have to accept as reasonable that if the PQ got a massive majority in the legislature after an election that they could just vote on the subject of quebec seperation from canada and that would settle it, no one would accept this and rightly so. If you want say that if quebec has to hold a referendum and the result has to be higher than an arbitrary number like say 75% rather than 50%+ 1 vote, then that idea is so anti democratic I barely know where to start. Think about it for a second, if you re saying that for something to pass it needs to have a majority of greater than 50% you are implicitly saying that a minority of people should or could decide the fate a majority. Take our example of 75%, your saying that 75% of people need to vote yes for it to pass, you re equally saying (though you may not realise it) only 25% of the people need to vote against it (vote no) for it not to pass...In this way the smaller group of people have decided the fate of the larger group of people, this is what is known as a 'tyranny of the minority' [ en.wikipedia.org ] and it's so anti democratic it's not even funny, it's also widely understood to vastly pervert the democratic process. Think about this, there were recently in the US a whole mess of balot innitiatives (which are basically a referendum) that went on (a lot of them about gay marriage) not a single one employed any standard higher than 50%, that's because everyone recognises it would be wrong to do so. Another thing to consider about this is that in some senses it's totally arbitrary to say that any particular side in a debate needs to have more than 50%. You could say in our case then why couldn't we flip it arround and say that 75% of people need to vote no to keep quebec in canada, this no more fair but equally arbitrary. You might say that the people who want to change things should have to be held to a higher standard, but this unfairly slants things for the status quo, there is no reason why you couldn't say that people who want to keep things the same should be held to the higher standard. In a democracy we shouldn't unfairly put the burden of proof on any side by asking for more than 50%. Doing this creates what's known as a built in bias for a position and is universally recognised as being counter to the spirit of democracy. (If anyone is interested in this type of thing there is a really good book about it called 'Democracy and its Critics' by a guy called Robert Dahl [ www.gotterdammerung.org ] 50% + 1 is equally arbitrary. I've already explained this. Claiming that 75% should have to vote to keep Quebec part of Canada is a stupid argument. Keeping things the way they are does not need an overwhelming majority. 50% + 1 might be considered a "majority" in the strictest sense, but anyone with the slightest bit of common sense realizes it's not a legitimate claim to say that "the majority has spoken". During the 1995 referendum the problem was very obvious and everyone was talking about it. If 50.1% vote "Yes", what does that mean? The question was already vague to begin with, coupled with the question of what actually constitutes a "majority". I will repeat this once again, 50.1% is not a predefined majority as it is too slim to be considered such in a vote of this type. You would like to think that the standard rules for simple changes applies, however in a case such as this, a slim majority is unacceptable. When the united states was formed in 1779 and the constitution was written by congress the vote required had to be UNANIMOUS. If even a single state disagreed, there was to be no agreement at all and the declaration of independence was not to be made. This caused a lot of problems since states like New York did not want to rock the boat and go to war with the British. They also weren't sure they even wanted to be part of the Union. Your basic argument is that 50.1% is a binding and set in stone number, when in reality it isn't even close. Can you name a single other country that was formed through succession with such a slim "majority"? You can't, because it's never happened before. If Quebec did separate with such a "majority" it would set a precedent never seen before on this planet. Originally Posted By BASDINI
"Who's being the judge of this? Are you saying Montrealers are the same as every other Quebecer? Have you been to other cities in this province? This is a totally bogus claim with no foundation." culturaly quebec is more a unit than montreal, because outside of montreal ethnically most people are pretty much the same (we can see this when we do comparitive genetic analysis, as far as genetic material is concerned quebec outside of montreal is pretty homogenist) you can't say the same about montreal. The other thing is that in terms of language quebec outside of montreal is again pretty homogenist (mostly french), where as montreal isn't at all (you english, arabic, chinese and probably others i don't even know about). My point was that given these two things it's much easier to say that quebecers are distinct people than to say people in montreal all are. Again though, nothing in principle prevents you from saying that the people in montreal constitute a distinct people and that the idea of National Self Determination applies. This came straight out of your ass. No point in arguing with this, since it's complete garbage. Originally Posted By BASDINI
"This is tripe. If the rest of Canada really did want Quebec to separate, then there would be nothing standing in the way, we'd have done it back in 1980" Nobody in the rest of canada has had a vote in the referendums. I'm sorry neoform, but to be honest i can't even follow what your trying to say here...The rest of canada really does hate us, it varries in intensity from province to province (it's the lowest in the maritimes and the highest in alberta) but that they don't like us that much is clear. The reason they hate us is because of the referendums, because we've had them. Their attitude is something along the lines of "Canada is the greatest country in the world, why wouldn't you want to be part of canada. You don't want to be part of canada? fine! GET THE FUCK OUT THEN, WE DON"T WANT YOU? Some commentators have called this 'spurned lover syndrome'. It's funny cause sometimes people out here will be talking politics with me and the subject of quebec will come up, and i'll start pushing them, trying get them to say things that are so retarded and even racist, like " yeah, fuck the french and fuck quebec, they should just seperate" right before i leave i say "oh yeah by the way guys i'm from quebec..." They don't like this at all, it's funny what people will say if they think you are one of "them" (they can't really tell cause i don't have an accent or anything) rather than the people they are against. ( a really good book about how the rest of canada may actually want us to seperate is 'Time to Say Goodbye: Building a Better Canada Without Quebec by Reed Scowen [ www.chapters.indigo.ca ] Some asshole writes a book and you feel it represents Canada as a whole? No. Canada does not hate Quebec. I have nothing more to add to this since it's just not the case. Originally Posted By BASDINI
this just validates everything i said about assimilation, ie. "why can't they just speak english like the rest of us, what difference does it make". Language does define our culture, what would germany be without german. And English does define you, it puts you in the larger family of Anglo Saxon cultures (along with australians, new zealanders etc) Being able to speak english gives you access to all things culturally english going back to shakespear and geoffrey chaucer just like speaking french gives access to everything going back past Voltaire. I will grant you that it is not the only thing which determines cultures, other things are at play like shared history and customs, but language is so important, it is so wraped up in how you see the world and yourself. I think it's really convienient for you to say this because you don't have to change anything at all, where as the french speaking people have to change everything. Clinging to a language isn't illogical anymore than clinging to your identity is illogical. Your native language really does make you who you are in certain sense. I just have to know will you be learning chinese and teaching your children chinese, i doubt it. Language is so much more than a communication tool. Here's an interesting question for you then, would Quebec be Quebec without the English speaking people it drove out in the past 30 years? A city is defined by it's people, however the separatists have been continuously driving out it's own people simply because they don't speak the same language. This is incredibly segregationist to do this, yet you support it 100%. Do you know how many times I've seen things like "English Go Home" spray painted around Montreal? The separatists movement as a whole is nothing more than a guise for segregation. People have to have someone to hate, so French separatists decide it's best to hate English people. You can argue this up and down, but that's the reality of the situation. Update » neoform wrote on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 9:49am Also dude, next time you reply, please break your reply out into paragraphs, it's bloody hard reading that. |
| I'm feeling pompous right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Shindy replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:01am |
| Coolness: 171950 | Originally Posted By THE.NEOFORM
A city is defined by it's people, however the separatists have been continuously driving out it's own people simply because they don't speak the same language. This is incredibly segregationist to do this, yet you support it 100%. Do you know how many times I've seen things like "English Go Home" spray painted around Montreal? The separatists movement as a whole is nothing more than a guise for segregation. People have to have someone to hate, so French separatists decide it's best to hate English people. You can argue this up and down, but that's the reality of the situation. Sorry to interrupt, but this made me react ... You are talking here about a small minority of the french separatist people. The most visible, I agree, but a really small part of what the separatist people are. I mean, most of the separatist I know want to build a Quebec who will still be a place where immigration is welcome. And that does include english speaking people. Even the artist who clame to be separatist talk about that in there song nowaday... (I recall lines from Lettre a Levesque, Cowbow fringant) "Pour c'qui est d'la souveraineté On peut pas dire que c'est la fièvre Le projet s'est mal renouvelé Et on en parle du bout des lèvres Mais quoique qu'à voir les extrémistes Qui se réclament Patriotes Avec leur discours passéiste J'me dis qu'on est loin du jack-pot Si on r'garde ça René Les enjeux ont bien changé Et les jeunes se conscientisent Faudrait écouter ce qu'ils disent Et que pour bâtir un pays Faudrait pas oublier d'inclure Les citoyens des autres ethnies Et leur culture" I don't argu that there is some people that writte "english go home" but the way you put this, EVERYONE who is pro separation thought that. Not true, at all. Carry on :P, sorry for the interruption! |
| I'm feeling gabber bitch right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Daf replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:06am |
 Coolness: 185465 | Originally Posted By SHINDY
Originally Posted By the.neoform
Do you know how many times I've seen things like "English Go Home" spray painted around Montreal? You are talking here about a small minority of the french separatist people. en plus de parler d'une minorité il oublie que c'est partout comme ça dans le monde je veux pas être plate, mais partout où je suis allé j'ai vu écrit sur les murs fuck french, à mort les anglais, kill black people, death to white people, etc etc comme si ici on était pire qu'ailleurs... franchement. je connais un Ontarien que quand y'étais jeune y'allais dans les bar battre les français saoul, le mettre dans son coffre de char et le libérer en plein milieu d'une foret et l'abandonner. c'est la vie, partout y'a du monde pour t'hair |
| I'm feeling kiss me, im shitface right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:16am |
| Coolness: 339775 | Originally Posted By DAF
en plus de parler d'une minorité il oublie que c'est partout comme ça dans le monde ahhhhhh, that's a great excuse. it happens everywhere, therefore it's acceptable. |
| I'm feeling pompous right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:22am |
 Coolness: 158880 | It's not. Ever.
So why use it as an argument, neo? |
| I'm feeling re-1up'ed right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Daf replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:22am |
| Coolness: 185465 | did i said it was acceptable?
i said, stop pretending it's worst here and that french separatist are THE evil, when it's everywhere the same. There's no worst or better, we are all identique i just find all that crying against french being so mean a little bit exagerated. |
| I'm feeling kiss me, im shitface right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:25am |
| Coolness: 158880 | Yeah, English-speaking people have NEVER acted this way towards French-speaking people in the history of Canada, right?
/sarcasm |
| I'm feeling re-1up'ed right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» No_Comply replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:28am |
 Coolness: 85045 | I speak franglais, so fuck all of you get out of my city? |
| I'm feeling dubstep is anti-fun right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:30am |
| Coolness: 158880 | YOUR city? I'm a Montrealer born and raised, I'll stay in my hometown, kthx :) |
| I'm feeling re-1up'ed right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» No_Comply replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:31am |
| Coolness: 85045 | Then join in the dialect goodness. |
| I'm feeling dubstep is anti-fun right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JojoBizarre replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:32am |
 Coolness: 295085 | your a whiner, born and raise, On the playground is where You whine most of your days
Whinning' out, maxin', relaxin', all whine And all shootin' some whine outside of the school When a couple of guys, who were up to no good Started makin' trouble in my neighborhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared And said, "You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Longueil." |
| I'm feeling weak right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:34am |
| Coolness: 158880 | Do I have to? I hate Longueuil :) |
| I'm feeling re-1up'ed right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:34am |
| Coolness: 339775 | Originally Posted By MASA
Yeah, English-speaking people have NEVER acted this way towards French-speaking people in the history of Canada, right? /sarcasm So.. this is revenge? I don't understand your argument. Progress is all about forgetting the past and doing what's right. |
| I'm feeling pompous right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» No_Comply replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:35am |
| Coolness: 85045 | hey WOAH, dont bring the south shore into this!
laval either. 9what Longueuil got to do with it anyway?) |
| I'm feeling dubstep is anti-fun right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:38am |
| Coolness: 158880 | Might be for them? Might be they're just bigoted assholes? I dunno, I tend not to associate with such close-minded individuals. In fact, I don't think I ever met anyone who said and thought "English go home".
To be fair, I've never met an English person who openly said to me "Fuck Frenchies", but I hear assholes like these exist as well. Guess I'm just lucky :) |
| I'm feeling re-1up'ed right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Daf replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:40am |
| Coolness: 185465 | Originally Posted By THE.NEOFORM
Originally Posted By masa
Yeah, English-speaking people have NEVER acted this way towards French-speaking people in the history of Canada, right? /sarcasm So.. this is revenge? I don't understand your argument. Progress is all about forgetting the past and doing what's right. for a guy who forget the past, since yesterday you didn't missed a chance to remind us how french canadian people have been a pain in the ass since before. |
| I'm feeling kiss me, im shitface right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» No_Comply replied on Wed Nov 19, 2008 @ 10:40am |
| Coolness: 85045 | Yeah you are, I've been discriminated against on skin colour, religion and mother tongue =[ I did notice the 3rd was worse on teh south shore, taking tech support calls from longueuil/st bruno/la prairie/ste julie etc was the worst =p |
| I'm feeling dubstep is anti-fun right now.. | |
If You'Re Not Voting For The Bloc Quebecois Read This
[ Cumbre de Página ] |
Post A Reply |
You must be logged in to post a reply.
[ Cumbre de Página ] |
