We Need A New Word For Live Set.
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 4:31pm |
 Coolness: 685620 | well, if you're going to a rave/loft party, what did you expect? Those aren't places where live bands set up, and those are generaly not the type of parties that full bands play at.
Electronic music is 99% of the time made with samples, synths and drum machines or computers. Playing electronic music with anything else would be like having Nickleback doing their concerts with synths and samples in ableton; it's not the style of music they make, and it makes absolutely no sense to convert it to another format/set of instruments. Someone doing an electronic music set in ableton or with a table full of hardware is just as much of a live set as a full band playing rock or metal on drums, 2 guitars, a bass and with vocals; It's the way that style of music is made, why should it be preformed in a diffrent way? The problem isn't in the calling it live, it's in your personal interpretation of what live music consists of. |
| I'm feeling the no pussy blues right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 4:37pm |
 Coolness: 134300 | k well from now on im callin what i do Tryin real hard rather than live,cause all i wanted was a distinction between live instuments and live sequencing.
cause to sequence and to play are distinct talents. and now adays,bands and electronic acts are sharing the same roof,party's like terra 3. so i thought maybe coining a new word might have been helpfull in distinguishing the 2 later on. |
| I'm feeling one ton soldiers right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 4:41pm |
| Coolness: 685620 | well, the distinction really comes down to the style of music played. With few exceptions (London Electricity, Prodigy, now Pendulum), if the act is labeled as "live" and they're an electronic group/act/producer, it's a fair bet they aren't showing up with the london philharmonic, 2 drummers and a sitar player.. Whereas if you see, say, Metallica on a lineup, you know that you're not going to be getting 5 guys staring at laptops clicking buttons and tweaking knobs. |
| I'm feeling the no pussy blues right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Omni replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 4:52pm |
 Coolness: 87605 | Originally Posted By SCREWHEAD WELL, THE DISTINCTION REALLY COMES DOWN TO THE STYLE OF MUSIC PLAYED. WITH FEW EXCEPTIONS (LONDON ELECTRICITY, PRODIGY, NOW PENDULUM), IF THE ACT IS LABELED AS "LIVE" AND THEY'RE AN ELECTRONIC GROUP/ACT/PRODUCER, IT'S A FAIR BET THEY AREN'T SHOWING UP WITH THE LONDON PHILHARMONIC, 2 DRUMMERS AND A SITAR PLAYER.. WHEREAS IF YOU SEE, SAY, METALLICA ON A LINEUP, YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE GETTING 5 GUYS STARING AT LAPTOPS CLICKING BUTTONS AND TWEAKING KNOBS.
EXACTLY. It all comes down to what type of music the person is playing. I don't see myself coming on a stage with a band anytime soon for an "unplugged" version of my show... The "live" show of any type of music should be as close as possible to the process of creating the music, except that you cut out all the random playing around and only play the actual tracks that were made. If the original song was made with instruments, it should be played live with instruments. If the original track was made with a computer and a sequencer of some sort, software or hardware, then the "live" version of it should involve a computer and a sequencer. That's it. If you mean to say that using a laptop or sequencer for an electronic music live PA is "not a real live" because it does not allow for improvisation, then you should consider the following: 1. Depending on how the show is set-up, it is very possible to integrate a certain level of suprise and improvisation, if you have the balls for it. 2. Should we then say that any band playing there songs in a show exactly the way they rehearsed it is "not really playing live" because they are not improvising? Now I do agree that a lot of electronic "live PAs" are bullshit because absolutely everything is pre-sequenced and the person is just bouncing around and pretending to actually be doing something. That, I agree, is real crap and I have been very disapointed in a lot of "lives" just because of that. However, if the person set-up the show so he or she actually has to interact with the gear in some way at all times to keep the show going and is not just pretending to do something, then I respect that. |
| I'm feeling yay right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 6:59pm |
 Coolness: 201255 | I'll list 5 reasons right now why doing complex live setups sucks ass at nearly any party or club. I'm sure I could write 15 more.
1) Most places have no room for even 1 keyboard, and it's hard to set up beforehand and not have your shit fucked up by idiots. Also most people don't pay enough.. why bring 5k worth of gear for 50$? It's better to just bring 1 laptop. 2) People expect seamless music for an hour+ straight, that is extremely hard to do in one shot, whether you are playing or building sets in live (you need time to load a huge ableton set). You need to at least be able to take a couple minute break every 30 min. 3) People shun doing ANY COOL LIVE STUFF at a party because they want consistent music. Most people would rather just hear one song mixed into another than a complex improvised set. 4) Some music is hard to pull off live because at its core it is all created in advance. Eg. Techno which has no real melodic component.. you can't do much more than push buttons and move knobs at that point. Putting live drums of guitar on top of it would be stupid. 5) A lot of electronic music producers just can't play real instruments well, that's why they are called producers and not musicians. If you are in an environment where you have a chance to actually experiment then by all means you should not just press a button, but at a party/club/small shit venue most people don't care enough for it to be worth it. Also most people who bash ableton sets don't have a clue how hard it can be to put a good set together. |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 7:15pm |
 Coolness: 159150 | I'm with Omni on that :
LIVE is fine with a laptop and some gear when you SEE INTERACTION from the person(s) performing, i.e. you only hear a bassline, guy raises a slider/presses a button/tweaks a knob and BOOM kick drum kicks in then another button and BOOM something else happens. *AT LEAST* not everything is prescripted... ...LIVE is *NOT* fine when, like Omni said, it's a guy starting a set and pretty much just dancing around and randomly picking a new track to play and not even mixing it himself. THAT, IMO, does not justify charging 50$ for a LIVE PA becaus it's nowhere near live. And this, people, is an actual awesome thread. |
| I'm feeling d&b selektah right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mico replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 7:21pm |
 Coolness: 150490 | No, it would be a lot better with just a little more Sequenced Cowbells. |
| I'm feeling cool right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 7:47pm |
| Coolness: 201255 | Why should I go see a bunch of paintings when the painter is not painting a copy in front of me?
Why should I go see a movie when the actors aren't even there and someone just presses play? Why should I go see an author at a book signing when he is not writing the book for me in front of me? it's a guy starting a set and pretty much just dancing around and randomly picking a new track to play and not even mixing it himself. THAT, IMO, does not justify charging 50$ for a LIVE PA becaus it's nowhere near live. What if it is a set that is played once, and then the person DESTROYS the file after... |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 9:36pm |
| Coolness: 134300 | so its your view that we should not make a distinction between what was live 20 years ago,and what is live today?
if you come to my art show i paint infront of you. you come to my show i sing and play infront of you. and if i go to a book signing the act of signing the book is writing!:)who goes to book signings anyway,id rather go to a laptop show....loll i kid i kid Update » regimental911 wrote on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 9:56pm pollock ,warhal,picaso painted live.
"Why should I go see a movie when the actors aren't even there and someone just presses play?' its called a play. and who goes to a book signing,really now. ' Update » regimental911 wrote on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 9:58pm its not even in the realm of public performance. Update » regimental911 wrote on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 10:05pm i just took a huge shit,LIVE in my bathroom Update » regimental911 wrote on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 10:12pm all you guys make good music,so props regardless |
| I'm feeling one ton soldiers right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Sun Mar 23, 2008 @ 11:58pm |
| Coolness: 201255 | 20 years ago they didn't have laptops that were powerful either. You could have 20k worth of racks of gear and still have a show where you press play and do practically nothing.
I mean you could also have a band that plays live but their lyrics are stupid and contrived, and the music is really basic and horrible, and a bunch of jazz guys will say that is shit too. |
| I'm feeling gangsta right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 1:04am |
| Coolness: 134300 | debating quality again not whether it should have its own term.
jazz guys? |
| I'm feeling one ton soldiers right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JasonBeastly replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 1:20am |
 Coolness: 76740 | Typical MC. All talk. You have no idea what you're talking about though, do you? What do you use when you perform? Like the minute somebody feels like mixing loops off a computer it's not live? It's totally live, you can't just let the thing play, it doesn't work that way. And there's no shame in triggering samples off a drum pad or keyboard, it's just as much of an instrument as any other. I play guitar and keys as well as doing a fair amount of production work with Ableton and I'd like you to tell me in what way this is some sort of easy cop-out. I've heard enough idiots say that laptop sets are all just pushing buttons, but really, how is that different than playing the keys on a keyboard, or pushing the levers on a clarinet, or putting your fingers at the right place on the fretboard? It might not seem like laptop live PA's are doing anything but that's because it's all contained in the computer. So blame the designers of these computers for making things ultra compact. Maybe you'd be happier if everyone who did a live set wore a special hat or something and jumped up and down going "Hey look at me!". Fucking bullshit man. You're hating on the people who write the music by dissing Ableton Live. |
| I'm feeling insanely sick right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 1:24am |
| Coolness: 134300 | ok,i'll ignore the fact you disrespected me.
and i'll remind you that im not dissing ableton users. I'll also remind you that if you read,you would see that i actually enjoy laptop sets. if you read further you'd see i was simply debating using the same term to describe what was once considered live to what is. i wasnt debating which was better,i was debating whether we should be using the same term to describe 2 entirely different things, the two being one or two guys sequencing live(which is cool) and 5 or 6 guys playing instruments live (also cool). lastly,do your research ,I AM NOT AN MC> |
| I'm feeling one ton soldiers right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JasonBeastly replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 1:34am |
| Coolness: 76740 | Ok sorry, I take it back. I have a pretty bad fever, it's taking me like nothing to get up in people's grills. I also think I knew that you're writing your own grime stuff, so I kinda made no sense there. So whatever... good debate nonetheless.
If the word "live" means that you're consistently doing something then DJ's are also live, as far as I'm concerned, but the difference I guess is whether or not you're playing your own music. If you are, I'd have to say the difference comes down to whether you're just playing full tracks in MP3 or WAV format or like Screwhead said reconstructing your tracks on the spot. You can usually tell the difference when somebody has a real performance going on rather than just pressing play and occasionally looking busy. I've tried to fake it a few times with tracks that I lost the original files to, just because I wanted to play them, but I got pretty bored every time because I could no longer play with different sections of the tracks. Sometimes people on laptops are just using Traktor as well. So I'd say that if you want to call it a live set, you actually have to be fairly lively while doing it. Forgive me for getting all aggro. |
| I'm feeling insanely sick right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» regimental911 replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 1:49am |
| Coolness: 134300 | it takes two distinctly different kinds of talent to arrange music and sequence music as apposed to being able to connect with several band members and rock out hard.
both get my respect because ive done both,they are both hard as fuck.but they are different and shouldnt be confused with the same term. i mean if you guys are happy with the current way we name shit cool. i aint,its my opinion,. |
| I'm feeling one ton soldiers right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JasonBeastly replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 2:10am |
| Coolness: 76740 | Well I agree, a new name is in order, but I mean, what would it be? They started calling it "live PA" long ago but I think they were talking about people carting out a bunch of samplers and synths and running them through a mixer. It's definitely very live to do something like that, but when you consider that most electronic music takes advantage of multi-tracking, when you do electronic music live you have to scale it down. You can't play all your synth lines and acid lines live, it just wouldn't work. No human has the timing for it, except perhaps Tom Jenkinson (Squarepusher), but even he's got a bunch of stuff sequenced. Usually if you want to play a few instruments live you have to take those elements out of your backing tracks, but it would never suffice to resort to replacing all of your sequenced elements with live instrumentation. You would need to get about 12 people, and they'd all need to be really tight, plus you'd need to find a V-Drums kit and those aren't cheap. Well actually none of that is cheap.
Maybe you'd be reassured to know that my band is working on approaches to live drum and bass, using two synths, a bass, a guitar, and a proper drum kit, as well as a trigger finger to play Amen samples, with Ableton for loops and MIDI. It's fucking tricky but we're figuring it out rather well. We played on the weekend but we really need to practice more, and I would hope that by the next time we do this live act we're tight as hell and pulling it off. We're called LLLCoolJ... soon to be notorious... |
| I'm feeling insanely sick right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» greatjob replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 2:18am |
 Coolness: 282485 | Wasn't this debated like 3 years ago, hold on lemme find the thread.. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MURDOCK_ROCK replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 2:27am |
 Coolness: 83905 | britney spears is crazy fat bald bich who lip synchs and beats her kids, i'd still fuck her!!! |
| I'm feeling republican right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mayday replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 2:55am |
 Coolness: 46555 | ME TOO! |
| I'm feeling glskjglldkfjlkj right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cedric replied on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 4:58am |
 Coolness: 47980 | les live-acts sur un laptop ,ont rendu la performance musical statique et [ ennuyeuse.ca ] reste du LIVE quand meme.mais j'aime de tres loin,voir un gars qui tweak des bonnes vieilles machines qu'un maudit laptop plate. Update » cedric wrote on Mon Mar 24, 2008 @ 5:01am je fourrais pas britney pour 2 cennes,surtout depuis que j'ai vue son sextape....c'est une suceuse de boute. |
| I'm feeling s'en crisse right now.. | |
We Need A New Word For Live Set.
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