No More Stm Tunnel Overnights :(
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:15pm |
 Coolness: 339770 | what if the guy who designed/built a big gray wall thought of his creation as art, then some jackass tagger came along and defaced it..? |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» lakester a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:15pm |
 Coolness: 59785 | Originally posted by MICO!...
Is it really true that the reason prices for passes and tickets are going up due to grafitti? I always assumed that these prices were hiked due to greed. But I guess if I assume, I just make and ass of you and me. The STM doesn't hike prices due to greed. That's absurd. As it's been pointed out, our fares are some of the lowest, if not the lowest, in North America. Graffiti is one of the reasons fares are hiked, but it's far from being the sole or even the most influential factor. And Neoform, that saying was around way before George W. And it holds true. Indifference doesn't solve anything. Whining doesn't solve anything. No one is going to stop vandalizing because Neoform whined about how his bus pass price went up. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» lakester a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:18pm |
| Coolness: 59785 | Originally posted by DJNEOFORM...
what if the guy who designed/built a big gray wall thought of his creation as art, then some jackass tagger came along and defaced it..? He'd have every right to be upset. I'm not saying society has no right to be upset about graffiti. I'd be pretty damn pissed if someone vandalized my private property, regardless of how nice it was. I'm saying, in my opinion, that people who don't do anything to fix a problem don't deserve to bitch about the problem. I don't apply that opinion solely to graffiti. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mico a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:22pm |
 Coolness: 150565 | Originally posted by LAKESTER...
Graffiti is one of the reasons fares are hiked, but it's far from being the sole or even the most influential factor. Thank you... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» eLDee a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:24pm |
 Coolness: 121020 | "Graf should remain on brick walls that are designated specifically for the purpose. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fucking stupid."
Fred you're forgetting one important thing and it is that ummmm how can I put this.. the graffiti pieces and burners actually did start on TRAINS and not walls. Even tho tags did start on walls, the big pieces and most of real artwork was done on commuter trains. In the beggining of graff tags were the 'natural' way to start but it progressed into bigger, nicer works of art. And you have to distinguish between graffiti art and bombin'. The two of them have been at each other's throats since the beggining. You have people who would rather spend a couple of hours doing something on one spot.. full detailed, precise, lots of color.. and then you have the other mentality.. the more the better. So basicly one is about quality the other about quantity. Altho tagging itself is just a way to get a feeling of a spraypaint can and get some can control, sadly a lot of kids stick to that.. never progressing or making any attempt to do anything besides tags. And then you have real artists who use spraypaint to do their art. Don't forget also that graff is part of a bigger culture who is all about creativity and skill, not destruction and negative attitude. Montreal is one of the most tagged places in canada because unlike Toronto, it doesn't have enough legal walls for the number of writers there are. It's as simple as that. And Mona Lisa was painted on canvas coz simply they didn't have technology to do othrewise. If somebody takes spraypaint and does an exact replica of Mona Lisa illegaly in a metro station.. is it still ugly as shit like you say? If something is illegal that doesn't mean it's ugly. That's the biggest pile of crap I have heard from people so far. And if society has a problem with a couple of light photons that, when bouncing off a specific surface create a color that does not match it's background and spends countless millions taking them off while that money could have been used to feed starving people and provide medication, then I only have one thing to say. The entire society that you're talking about are a bunch of greedy asswipes. My 2 Euros |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:26pm |
| Coolness: 339770 | Originally posted by LAKESTER...
I'm saying, in my opinion, that people who don't do anything to fix a problem don't deserve to bitch about the problem. I don't apply that opinion solely to graffiti. so what should i do? become a vigilante, beating up anyone i see tagging the metros? no, that's the job of the police, and my *whinning* is exactly what goes things done, when you *whine* to your local polititians they eventually get off their asses and do something about it. Thats the whole idea behind democracy. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» eLDee a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:29pm |
| Coolness: 121020 | They have been trying to kill hiphop for how long now?? 45 years?
And still they fail, every single time. Over and over and over and over. Haven't you people learned anything? Obviously not. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» eLDee a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:31pm |
| Coolness: 121020 | err 30 years. Sorry |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mico a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:31pm |
| Coolness: 150565 | Originally posted by LAKESTER...
Originally posted by Mico!...
As for Snowdon metro... I find that the original murals -the ones that look like old enchanted forests from hell- should be primed. Then have all-star writters to productions all along the wall. I find that this would prevent 'taggers' from defacing the wall, simply out of respect for the pieces. I'd have to disagree with that. If writers are trying to get themselves respected as artists, they should respect other artforms/artists as well. An artist tooks days and weeks to paint those murals. Out of respect, vandals should not be going over them, no matter how scary or ugly the mural may be. I don't know about you, but if I spent weeks painting a mural and some little punk went over it with a crappy tag or throw, I'd wanna bash his skull in. And Screwhead, who was your post directed at? Yeah, all form of art should be respected. Yet, that mural has been there for longer than I can remember, and that murual is falling apart! Theres huge pathces of grey from past buffs. There are still tags all over it, and if the city removes them, there will be more patches of grey.Also if the city decided to restore the whole thing, it would still be ugly becuas it was ugly in the first place. So why leave something that is falling apart and not replace it with something new? And when i say go-over, i mean prouction wise, not "vandalizing it". |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» eLDee a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:37pm |
| Coolness: 121020 | Everything in this universe is relatve
There's no right answer and there's no wrong answer. When humans finally understand this basic concept of how thing works, a lot of uncesessary drama and problems would be long time history. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» lakester a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:48pm |
| Coolness: 59785 | Originally posted by DJNEOFORM...
Originally posted by lakester...
I'm saying, in my opinion, that people who don't do anything to fix a problem don't deserve to bitch about the problem. I don't apply that opinion solely to graffiti. so what should i do? become a vigilante, beating up anyone i see tagging the metros? no, that's the job of the police, and my *whinning* is exactly what goes things done, when you *whine* to your local polititians they eventually get off their asses and do something about it. Thats the whole idea behind democracy. Vigilantism happens when the law is doing an inadequate job. Graffiti runs rampant in the city, so obviously the currents law and police aren't very effective. So yes, becoming a vigilante is an option. Maybe not the most favorable though. Maybe instead of beating them, you can file a police report when you witness someone vandalizing the metro? Your local politicians read Ravewave? I doubt it. Do you write letters to them to complain about the graffiti problem? I doubt any Ravewavers are writing those letters on your behalf. Therefore, your voice is not being heard and you're doing nothing but whining. If it's a problem, take action. Oh, by the way, you seem to have an awful lot of faith about how a democracy works. In theory, that's how it should work. In practice, it doesn't work like that. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» lakester a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:53pm |
| Coolness: 59785 | Originally posted by MICO!...
Yeah, all form of art should be respected. Yet, that mural has been there for longer than I can remember, and that murual is falling apart! Theres huge pathces of grey from past buffs. There are still tags all over it, and if the city removes them, there will be more patches of grey.Also if the city decided to restore the whole thing, it would still be ugly becuas it was ugly in the first place. So why leave something that is falling apart and not replace it with something new? And when i say go-over, i mean prouction wise, not "vandalizing it". Keep in mind beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's a subjective opinion. What's ugly in your eyes isn't necessarily ugly in everyone else's eyes. And what's beautiful in your eyes isn't necessarily beautiful in everyone's eyes. If you really believe that a large production would be more beautiful and a viable replacement, you too should do something about it :) Get together a bunch of talented writers, get them to build a photo portfolio and then present your project to the STM. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» iCaRuS a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:54pm |
 Coolness: 39415 | Originally posted by :|APR1ZM|:...
then again stm is pissing mtlers with excessive rates and cashier are all mean bitches ! hehe okay maybe not all but often they give attitude to ppl cuz they hate their fuckin jobs hehe so true... when i "buy" a ticket i would like a damn smile with that !! they think they own the world.. damn metro fucks with |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» iCaRuS a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 3:55pm |
| Coolness: 39415 | Originally posted by :|APR1ZM|:...
then again stm is pissing mtlers with excessive rates and cashier are all mean bitches ! hehe okay maybe not all but often they give attitude to ppl cuz they hate their fuckin jobs hehe so true... when i "buy" a ticket i would like a damn smile with that !! they think they own the world.. damn metro fucks with need for their own id card? bullshite indeed |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 4:06pm |
| Coolness: 339770 | Originally posted by LAKESTER...
Vigilantism happens when the law is doing an inadequate job. Graffiti runs rampant in the city, so obviously the currents law and police aren't very effective. So yes, becoming a vigilante is an option. Maybe not the most favorable though. Maybe instead of beating them, you can file a police report when you witness someone vandalizing the metro? Your local politicians read Ravewave? I doubt it. Do you write letters to them to complain about the graffiti problem? I doubt any Ravewavers are writing those letters on your behalf. Therefore, your voice is not being heard and you're doing nothing but whining. If it's a problem, take action. Oh, by the way, you seem to have an awful lot of faith about how a democracy works. In theory, that's how it should work. In practice, it doesn't work like that. How do you know i've never writen any letters? Having no faith in democracy is exactly what kills it. people who don't vote make it less of a democracy. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» michaeldino a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 4:11pm |
 Coolness: 69080 | I've said this before....
Article 1) graffiti as art. Art. That is a very abstract word. Let's review it's meaning shall we?The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines art as: the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects . That is all well and good. Now is a tag creative? imaginative? or aesthetic? That's another questionable answer. In my personal opinion, it is not. It is ugly, unattractive, unimaginative, and not creative in any way, shape or form. It even makes its surroundings less appealing. Article 2) "People have been writing their names in weird places since the cavemen." You're an idiot. A) They did not write their names. B) They drew animals and the hunt. More likely than not as a guide for younger men who did not have the experience of the hunt. It was instrumental to the survival of their community. It was not because they wanted to advertise their names to people they don't know, nor was it because they were so interested and deep-rooted followers and lovers of the so-called hip hop culture . Article 3) Graffiti affects society as a whole. Graffiti really does affect society as a whole. Why do you think the (oh so horrible and hated) government cleans up graffiti when it is somewhere it's not supposed to be? Because they like wasting money? Money that could easily be spent on helping the poor you love so much? And are tagging so desperately to help? Hm. Let's think for a moment. Does the "Man" want to waste money on cleaning graffiti? No. Why not? Because he could spend that money on social benefits for the people who will be re-electing him next term. And how does tagging fit into this equation? Like so: Tax Money = Taxes collected from the poor, the middle class and the rich. Correct? Correct. Now here is where it gets tricky. Tax Money is spent on: Social Benefits, Re-election campaign, Social Insurance, Bien-etre Social, Roads, Health, Education, Graffiti removal (very simplistic, but I'm trying to prove a point) Now the money spent on the removal of graffiti could be used in more efficient ways. And don't doubt that it's not a lot of money. It is. You've all said it before: "If I don't do it, there will be 10 people ready to take my place." So for every person who stops, its increases exponentially 10 TIMES! Wow. That's a lot of money! Enough even to start a new welfare program? I wouldn't know. But I hope you can see my point. Article 4) Graffiti as evolution. Evolution. Wow. That's deep. I think he was trying to make some sort of artistic creation with that comment. (Sorry.) But I complettely agree with FLEKO on his statement about it getting commercialized and becoming useless. Graffiti did, I assume, evolve from somewhere, something. Something with a meaning, with a purpose. It no longer has that meaning or purpose. It is destruction. And (if any of you have read Graham Greene) destruction may be an artform. But in this scenario, I don't see it that way. Tagging has lost its meaning. It no longer symbolizes the frustration with the powers that be. It symbolizes teen angst and attention-seeking. If you have a problem with the "powers that be," take it up with them. Not with the people who ride the bus every morning. The reasons for this are twofold: A) Tagging is almost entirely incomprehensible and illegible. B) People ignore it. It is everywhere. One more or less won't change the world. (Unfinished) Conclusion Vandalism is bad. It's meaning is lost. It is a mindless self-indulgence. If you want to chagne the world, do something constructive, not DEstructive. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» lakester a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 4:40pm |
| Coolness: 59785 | Originally posted by DJNEOFORM...
How do you know i've never writen any letters? I never said you haven't. In fact, I asked if you have. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» A_Princess a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 6:04pm |
 Coolness: 61950 | If the stm wants to up its security at least its a sign that my buspass was bumped up in price for a reason. I thought they just liked ripping me off. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» lakester a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 6:16pm |
| Coolness: 59785 | Originally posted by ~RAZEDINBLACK~...
If the stm wants to up its security at least its a sign that my buspass was bumped up in price for a reason. I thought they just liked ripping me off. Do you people who think the STM is ripping you off ever read the news? BTW, the extra security is being added thanks to the government investing $300+ million in the STM. It's not thanks to the revenue from increased bus pass fees. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» G__ a répondu le Wed 24 Mar, 2004 @ 6:31pm |
 Coolness: 141470 | metros smell
"I dont think you can say that about any stations in MTL. With the exception of Guy..." Mico one word Atwater |
No More Stm Tunnel Overnights :(
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