Fuck-Off Cheap Promoters !!! (like Hexa-5)
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 4:16pm |
 Coolness: 509535 | did I not write: "you know people say they'll do it for guestlist but expect to bring their 2-3 closest friends... and heck they'd deserve more"
not only is that NOT me asking anyone to do anything for a guestlist, but it also clearly states that I believe even 4 guestlist isn't enough... READ what I wrote before quoting me to prove yourself wrong... Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
I wouldnt do it for 10 guestlists... and I wouldn't offer you even close to that so we're in perfectly harmony! Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
Erm no... Most clients are complete idiots who dont know shit about design and come back once you are done with what THEY approved and change the concept completely. Regular correction for the same concept is done at a regular fee not double, if YOU change the concept and the designer has to redo the whole fucking job then you do pay double, thats the way it is on every contract I work on period. wtf, is a client DID know shit about design then they wouldn't be hiring you! and the rest of that, well it sounds like some clients do go out of control... it happens in every business but in the end, if you don't provide a product the client wants, it's business lost for you, not them. Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
I have a schedule to keep and other clients to deal with that don't turn around and change everything because all of a sudden they aren't happy with what they asked for. Dude, if they aren't happy with it, then it's clearly not what they asked for. Logic. Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
Spoiled brat? A good designer works hard for his contracts and to please his customers because what he does for you is worth it if it goes to his portfolio. For every good designer, there's 8 crappy ones (i'm part of those 8 ;)) Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
You wanna pay a fixed fee, then I aint correcting shit for free, you take it as is after ive worked for 3 hours and given it an hours time to do whatever the fuck you need from whats already in place. Not happy? Who cares, do business the right way or don't do it at all. That's not doing business the right way, who the hell do you think you are? YOUR mistakes should not be costing the client money.. I understand that graphic design is not an exact science but then it should be YOUR job, the pro, to make sure you're going in the right direction before putting in any time you can't take back. Otherwise you are not doing YOUR job. Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
That is completely irrelevant, make more money with your event, find a way to cut budgets on other things than services you receive from 3rd parties. The guy you are renting equipment from doesnt give a shit if hes making 50% of whatever you get form profit, he charges a fee and you stfu and pay it. Same thing applies to your graphic designer. And a big fat 100-200$ is NOT 4.3 million is it? I completely agree, and flyer design is what I decided to CUT. My choice... it's not your business to hate on me for it... or wait... actually I guess it is. Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
Because sadly, these days any moron with photoshop thinks he can do a designers job to cut corners and save money. The end result is piss poor product for the masses and less jobs for us and quite frankly it pisses me right the fuck off. Welcome to reality chummmmmmm-p. Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
Get a book learn the trade and do it right. Otherwise take out your wallet and pay someone to give you something good. Oh i have the technical skills, I just suck as a graphic artist, no skills. Originally Posted By STRIK_IX
And for the record, I've done a ton of shit for free for charity. Your rave isn't charity, it's still business. Good god! When did I ask anyone to actually do anything for free? I mean, you were helpful in your first post in my thread... wasn't so hard to just touch on a few points and I appreciate it in case you didn't know... don't need you telling me how to throw my party tho... |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MelooDie a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 4:18pm |
 Coolness: 248400 |  |
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| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» El_Presidente a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 4:30pm |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Strik_IX a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 4:40pm |
 Coolness: 88615 | wtf, is a client DID know shit about design then they wouldn't be hiring you! and the rest of that, well it sounds like some clients do go out of control... it happens in every business but in the end, if you don't provide a product the client wants, it's business lost for you, not them.
You've already proven that you don't know shit about design. I've got 1600 hours training + about a years experience in the field under my belt how much do you have? Dude, if they aren't happy with it, then it's clearly not what they asked for. Logic.
Sounds logical, too bad that's not the real world. Client A wants a to revamp his logo without changing the concept. I provide the client with 3 designs and he chooses one and asks for a few details to change. I provide client A with what he demands, he shows it to his wife and she says she doesnt like umbrellas (the concept client A asked for). Client comes back and asks me to redo... well Mr. A you get to pay double because I have other shit to do than attend to your changing moods. If client A had asked to change colors or have minor tweeks then he will still pay, but a regular hourly fee. Thats how we do business and that's how it's always been. Don't like it? Don't give a shit. For every good designer, there's 8 crappy ones (i'm part of those 8 ;))
You are not a designer, you think you are because you own photshop and have played around with it more than the average joe. That's not doing business the right way, who the hell do you think you are? YOUR mistakes should not be costing the client money.. I understand that graphic design is not an exact science but then it should be YOUR job, the pro, to make sure you're going in the right direction before putting in any time you can't take back. Otherwise you are not doing YOUR job.
Making sure I go in the right direction is my job, and I dont get paid for that briefing do I? That usually takes about 1-3 hours per contract. I ask questions and the client answers, if the client didnt supply the right answers it's not my problem, and trust me I write it all down. Oh i have the technical skills, I just suck as a graphic artist, no skills.
ORLY? I guess you must know all the finer points of pre-press, all of the pertinent software and are an obvious pro in terms of typographical knowledge (pretty much what separates any run of the mill designer from a good designer). Which is btw technical knowledge and not artistic at all. The finer points of typography are a science and you dont learn it from a few tutorials. Good god! When did I ask anyone to actually do anything for free? I mean, you were helpful in your first post in my thread... wasn't so hard to just touch on a few points and I appreciate it in case you didn't know... don't need you telling me how to throw my party tho...
I said that because you pretty much painted all graphic designers greedy. I ain't telling you how to throw your party, but you'd probably be a little pissed if every moron promoter thought they could DJ and decided to spin instead of booking people... that's what a majority of small businesses do to people of my trade. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 5:12pm |
 Coolness: 159095 | You know, if we get to the root of the problem, it all boils down to promoters not having 1. genuine desires for professionalism and 2. any money to pay for shit.
I have zero compassion for broke promoters. If you're practically broke to begin with, maybe you shouldn't be renting venues, sound systems, security, DJs, etc. and come crying you don't have enough money to pay for your staff and extra stuff. If you can barely afford Kraft Dinner, don't fucking go dining at the Helene De Champlain restaurant and ball your eyes out trying to attract sympathy and comprehension from everyone when your bank account is in the red. YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THIS PREDICAMENT, no one twisted your arm to throw a party, no one forced you to invest in a party where you came out empty-handed money-wise, YOU decided to try your luck and do it anyway for whatever personal reasons or desire to serve your "rave community". Ultimately, like ANY FUCKING BUSINESS VENTURE, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR PARTY'S SUCCESS OR DEMISE so stay sober ( for fuck's sake ), plan your shit thoughtfully like an adult instead of a giddy 8 year old on speed and learn from your - and everyone else's - mistakes. And if your party tanks, well suck it up and DEAL WITH IT LIKE A MAN/WOMAN instead of whining, bitching or sneaking out the back exit like a fucking coward. |
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| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 5:12pm |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MelooDie a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 5:30pm |
| Coolness: 248400 | Seuls ceux qui prennent le risque d'échouer spectaculairement réussiront brillamment.
- Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Termina a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 5:47pm |
 Coolness: 86065 | Originally Posted By V.2-1
You know, if we get to the root of the problem, it all boils down to promoters not having 1. genuine desires for professionalism and 2. any money to pay for shit. I have zero compassion for broke promoters. If you're practically broke to begin with, maybe you shouldn't be renting venues, sound systems, security, DJs, etc. and come crying you don't have enough money to pay for your staff and extra stuff. If you can barely afford Kraft Dinner, don't fucking go dining at the Helene De Champlain restaurant and ball your eyes out trying to attract sympathy and comprehension from everyone when your bank account is in the red. YOU PUT YOURSELF IN THIS PREDICAMENT, no one twisted your arm to throw a party, no one forced you to invest in a party where you came out empty-handed money-wise, YOU decided to try your luck and do it anyway for whatever personal reasons or desire to serve your "rave community". Ultimately, like ANY FUCKING BUSINESS VENTURE, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR PARTY'S SUCCESS OR DEMISE so stay sober ( for fuck's sake ), plan your shit thoughtfully like an adult instead of a giddy 8 year old on speed and learn from your - and everyone else's - mistakes. And if your party tanks, well suck it up and DEAL WITH IT LIKE A MAN/WOMAN instead of whining, bitching or sneaking out the back exit like a fucking coward. Bingo. No cash? Don't throw a party. Reign In Blood cost me 4000$. I managed to pay everything off, but I did not make back what I put in for the event. Not even close. I paid 4000$ (djs/live acts (about 32 in total), venue, lights, sound, deco, blah blah blah), and made 500$ back. But you know, it was worth it in the end. Because: I had a really great time organizing it and seeing others enjoying themselves at a Hardcore party. I did it for the music. Somehow, about 300 people showed up even though it was in Laval (at the Level. Wanted something downtown ultimately, but there was nothing available at the time) and there was a snow storm that night. Lesson? Next time, no Laval or snow. LOL |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MelooDie a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 5:52pm |
| Coolness: 248400 | exactly ! You took the risk and it's pretty honorable! And yes.. no money upfront? No party! that's for sure! |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ufot a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 6:59pm |
 Coolness: 93075 | 
Ufright-there's a disturbance in this thread... I haven't felt it since... |
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| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» M-A-X a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 8:12pm |
 Coolness: 121610 | You guys should do a contract with the promoters when you spin, that will back your asses and you will look more professonial as a artist.
My 2 cents |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mike_Stinger a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 8:28pm |
 Coolness: 51215 | Originally Posted By SEX.IS.BORING
Je suis pas dj, alors je peux pas parler par expérience, mais selon mon humble opinion je crois que c'est correct pour un dj de jouer gratuitement ou pour un très petit montant, mais si le dj le fait de son propre accord, et que le promoteur est CLAIR avec le dj comme quoi il le booke mais il sera pas payé; à ce moment là l'artiste sait à quoi s'attendre et est libre d'accepter le booking ou non. Par contre promettre un cachet et pas tenir sa parole c'est vraiment inacceptable. J'ai une dent personnelle contre Jesse (il a crossé du monde, mais sur d'autres trucs que l'organisation de party, enfin, je ne veux pas m'étaler là-dessus, mais l'honnêteté ne semble pas être sa principale qualité hehehe) alors c'est sûr que déjà je juge mal ses partys, mais il me semble que ça doit pas lui coûter très cher organiser sa soirée de marde au koi... alors il a aucune raison de pas pouvoir payer les artistes qui se déplacent et investissent de leur temps pour ça... Qui plus est, l'argument de "ouin mais tsé man les dj doivent faire ça par passion et non pas pour le cash"... mais justement pour travailler sur cette passion et s'améliorer comme dj, c'est pas gratuit, il faut investir dans du nouvel équipement, le réparer quand il brise... acheter des tracks !!! C'est une roue qui tourne, si les promoteurs payent pas les dj, ceux-ci n'achèteront plus de musique alors les producteurs ne composeront plus aucun son, et il n'y aura plus de scène... Arnaquer les gens c'est jamais un investissement à long terme, mais il y en a qui ont pas compris ce principe de base That's aslo some nicely written french. :-) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 8:30pm |
| Coolness: 159095 | Originally Posted By M-A-X
You guys should do a contract with the promoters when you spin, that will back your asses and you will look more professonial as a artist. Yeah, I tried that once and you know what the promoter said ? " Fuck this, I'll just book someone else who isn't anal about it ". I was the bad guy for covering my ass and ultimately lost the booking for some other bedroom DJ who was willing to do it for free. That's what I meant when I said some promoters lack " genuine desire for professionalism ". |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DynV a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 8:54pm |
 Coolness: 108780 | all this talk of contracts... how would you plan to enforce them? a contract is only worth how much its signer is distrainable.
I know of more than a few cases where not-so-small businesses should have bankrupted but still acquired goods/services hoping that it would be their miracle solution. there's a reason why landlords do credit check before accepting a lease. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» prrr a répondu le Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 10:28pm |
 Coolness: 43620 | Damn I wish I had the time to promote a party this year! It's always been accepted in my mind that if promoting a party, DJs and sound system and venue etc get paid FIRST (you put up all the money beforehand, before starting the party process in the first place). THEN you might make it back. You might make a little profit, or you might lose everything. If you're throwing a party, you have to be prepared to lose everything.
Example, a friend of mine who throws a massive outdoor fesitval each year. He told me that he lost many thousands of dollars for the first few years, and eventually started breaking even, and it gets better each year so now he's making some profit. Maybe promoting is like school, it takes time and financial investment and eventually maybe you make back the money and if all goes well profit too. It's not everyone else's fault if you have the money or not. A promoter is IMO, supposed to have the money beforehand, and it's THEIR job to take the fall for it if things don't pan out. Not all the artists and DJs and venue etc. Originally Posted By DYNV
all this talk of contracts... how would you plan to enforce them? There are ways. ^^ Mise À Jour » prrr a écrit sur Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 10:34pm P.S. it bothers me hearing about workers who, after the fact, don't get paid what they were told they'd be paid. wtf?? Isn't the promoter supposed to be the one who has the money to throw the party in the first place? I didn't think that the workers were supposed to be fronting their work.
If you can't afford to make a big party and you don't have the thousands to throw it already, start small, don't get in over your head. Mise À Jour » prrr a écrit sur Fri 18 Feb, 2011 @ 10:35pm Oops I didn't mean for all this to sound so confrontational, lol. I just want things to be fair for everyone involved and for there to be some responsability :) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan a répondu le Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 12:00am |
 Coolness: 166520 | I've put myself in debt, and/or spent the cash i had on-hand regardless of loss or profit, to pay my artists. There are others like that too ...
I'm also a Dj, I like getting paid once in a while - feels like you're appreciated, we live in a system where money is a reward, so that's that (plus our time and transportation expenses, which are traditionally covered for Headliners, but forgotten when it comes to locals). I lead by example. When it's my turn to Dj though, I never complain when I don't get paid, except to one or two close friends if I feel ripped-off given the situation ... Anyway, it's the DJ's choice. If one day the person wants to play for free at a free event, sweet. If it's an event that's 5$ at the door, and they want 30$, it's nice and understandable. If it's a 30$ event, and they want 60$, that's generous. Problem is, promoters tend to think that if you accept one gig at a cheap price, then that's always your price, regardless of the cover charge or profit, and they are real happy that they saved a few bucks by booking you (i know that isn't the case in this thread, i'm just sayin') ... But the Dj decides when he plays for what price, it's his right, and his income is nobody's fuckin' business. I've actually had DJs try to give their pay back to me, once they look around the room, see my expenses, and wonder why I'm paying them anyway. It almost makes me cry, to see that some people really care, and that they are aware of when a promoter really cares. When the DJ takes the cash, says thanks and takes off, that's cool too, 'cause I pay 'em for a reason, and they deserve it. I don't like seeing dirty laundry out in public, but if this thread can be a lesson to promoters and/or DJs who take people for granted, then it served it's purpose. Don't worry Moebius, when i book you I'll make sure your set is done before the last metro, so I don't have to pay for your fuckin' taxi .. :P haha! XD |
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| Neutral [0]Toggle ReplyLink» cjbsexx a répondu le Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 2:10am |
 Coolness: 48665 | Jesse/ Hexa-5 n'est pas un cheap promoteur..
C'est un gars qui a ses problèmes, qui traverse une mauvaise phase. Mais ça reste un bon promoteur. C'est quelqu'un qui se dédie à la scène. Il fait son possible, pour le meilleur ou pour le pire. C'est vrai qu'il est là pour l'argent en partie, mais qu'en tire-t-il vraiment ? Être dans cette scène pour l'argent c'est se condamner à être pauvre. être musicien, peu importe le style, c'est choisir le chemin difficile. Ça arrive à tout le monde de faire le con et de flamber 20$ de trop, mais je ne crois pas que ça vaille la peine d'en faire une histoire sur internet ! |
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| Neutral [0]Toggle ReplyLink» sex.is.boring a répondu le Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 3:06am |
 Coolness: 78245 | moi très honnêtement (et je m'excuse si mes propos sont un peu trop crus), mais moi j'ai toujours été persuadée que jesse organisait des événements dans le seul but ultime de pouvoir vendre sa drogue (de qualité médiocre, pour ne pas dire de MERDE) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moebius a répondu le Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 3:57am |
 Coolness: 70520 | Originally Posted By ZOMBIENATHAN
Don't worry Moebius, when i book you I'll make sure your set is done before the last metro, so I don't have to pay for your fuckin' taxi .. :P haha! XD :) ... Nathan tu sais que tu fait PAS parti de ces promoters cheapette ... Il y aura toujours des djs qui voudrons jouer pour etre sur une photo avec Destructiva, parceque leur grand-mere leur aurra offert traktor (qui fera les trois quart de leur job) a Noël ... puis suite a ça ils vont downloader la derniere compil dubstep-psy-cool du moment en torrent, pour devenir enfin les stars de leur cours de poterie au cegep de st bruno... Il seront pres a revendre cette meme grand mere pour jouer 5 minutes de dobestep devant 4 personne pour la modite somme d'un "like sur facebook" !!! Puis en echange il y aurra toujours de promoters qui vu qu'ils viennent de perdre leur job au subway, se disent, J'vais organiser un party, j'vais me refaire, et payer mes artistes avec des coupons trios, préparés par des Sandwichs artistes!!! J'pense qu.il faut juste oublier ce genre de soirées ... big up Alien Zed et Bliss, parceque moi, a chaques fois, je me dis, je vais contribuer a cette scene, jouer gratos pour le plaisir des gens qui encourage ce genre d'événement .... J'y pense puis je me dis que c'est de ma/notre faute d'encourager ce genre de soirées bidons ... Pour revenir a ton post, Nathan, je suis crissement pres a jouer gratos pour toi anytime, ça a pas rapport, tout d'abord, on est chum (il me semble), on fait parti de ce peux de personnes qui sont pres a faire des sacrifices pour booster une scene hardcore krissement malade, c'est mon choix on l'assume, mais on sais en tant que DJs que si quelqu'un te promet une "compensation" pour traverser la ville avec ton bac de disque dans la neige, et que la soirée se passe tres bien mais que en dépit de tes efforts, tu te fais niaiser, ça va (je l'éspere)te pisser-off. Ce soir je vien de jouer a une soirée avec un headliner, peu de monde, bonne vibe, il n'y a pas de probleme, compte tenu du nombre de gens que l'on rediscute le montant du cachet, je suit pas un rapace, je sui loin de jouer pour l'argent .... Il y a des djs greedy c'est sur, mais surement pas auttant que de promoters du même qualificatif !!! Mise À Jour » moebius a écrit sur Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 3:58am Bin moi perso, j'ai vraiment penser que Jesse etait un bon gars comme Nathan, ou Pete/Anima ...
Bin non !! Mise À Jour » moebius a écrit sur Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 4:02am hey ... cjbsexx lorsque tu sera concerné, tu viendras me dire que ça vaut pas la peine de chialer ... Mise À Jour » moebius a écrit sur Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 4:03am 2 M-A-X ... a template contract could be a good idea ... depends of the night !! |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss a répondu le Sat 19 Feb, 2011 @ 4:02am |
| Coolness: 129695 | Originally Posted By CJBSEXX
Être dans cette scène pour l'argent c'est se condamner à être pauvre. être musicien, peu importe le style, c'est choisir le chemin difficile. Vraiment n'importes quoi ton affaire, c'est peut-etre le cas pour la psy-trance scene qui franchement est un véritable disgrace, no joke. Je penses que le probleme c'est que c'est trop HIPPY votre mentalité...Et je dis pas ca mechament so don't get mad :P Tout le monde peut reussir dans la musique si tu t'y mets. Va voir en Europe ou aux Etats cooment ca ce passes, il a plein de monde qui VIVENT de leur passion. Et comment ils font ca you might ask? Ben oui, ils sont payés comme du monde et traiter avec respect. Its a no brainer ;) |
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Fuck-Off Cheap Promoters !!! (like Hexa-5)
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