People Shot Outside Blue Dog Last Night
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 9:04am |
 Coolness: 86735 | Originally Posted By FISHEAD
case in point, Chuck D's response to what happened at Oka: [ www.discogs.com ] Chuck D did an Oka protest record? that's fucking awesome Originally Posted By lukeperil
Srsly whenever I hear people saying they don't like that gangsta shit I want to call bullshit. It's like the "conscious and sensitive black people are ok but the angry gangstas are ok to call niggers" mentality. You're white. You don't understand it. You never could. .... Hip hop wasn't originally about what you say it is either. That's a dumb white opinion. lol. this is indeed racist. you're white too. so, according to your logic, you don't understand it either... Originally Posted By lukeperilThe fact is, gangsta rap sings about crime. The hard reality of living in a shit neighbourhood because your mom couldn't afford to move somewhere better, and because your family also wants to be able to have a community that isn't poisoned by gang violence, rape, crack dealing, and all the other hustling that people think has to be part of their life.
^^^ ...and yet you have plenty to say about what the "reality" of ghetto life is. and what is "white" anyway? a racist term in the purest sense of the word. it's insulting to me to be lumped in with billions of other people just because of the colour of my skin. in first year Physical Anthropology, we were taught that the concept of race is a fallacy. there is more genetic difference within the peoples of Africa than there is between Africans and Europeans. it's stupid to see people in terms of white / black - it's all shades of grey Originally Posted By lukeperil
We never understood it like black youth living in the ghetto did. Why would we assume this knowledge? We can say we know the music, we can say we know the artists, but only through the medium they expressed themselves through. Not personally, and not profoundly enough to say anything for sure. I'm just saying when we all heard our first hip hop tracks in the 80s most white kids only got into the Fat Boys and Run DMC and felt uncomfortable about all the gun talk and depictions of hard life. Most of us got into PE only after we accepted that they probably would have hated seriously on us and our typically white way of life, and even then, as a kid I had no idea what their political stances were or why. you're projecting. not everybody had your experience. speaking for myself, the first hip hop I got in to was in 1990.. Geto Boyz, Public Enemy, NWA, Ice-T, Ice Cube and Maestro Fresh Wes. different styles.. gangster, conscious black-panther type shit, and just fun party music.. I understood PE's political stance very well. long before I heard of them I read a lot of history and was very interested in the struggle of oppressed peoples. the struggle of civil rights in America was also happening at the same time in Northern Ireland. the Black Panthers and Martin Luther King were and still are considered a source of inspiration to Irish Catholics over there. the Black Panthers and the Irish guerrillas have a lot in common, and surviving Black Panthers (the ones the government didn't assassinate in early-morning raids) have gone to Belfast to give talks about their shared revolutionary ground. so PE's message had instant appeal to me - and the Bombsquad's production couldn't be beat. so you can't assume everyone experienced the music the way you did., I never felt uncomfortable about any of it. far from it. as soon as I heard that shit I got right into it. I've always loved soul, so I felt like hip hop was what I had been waiting to hear all my life. what about white people who grew up around it? like MC Serch? Jewish dude who grew up in Queens. Nas made his first appearance ever on his track .. and Serch was one of the executive producers for Illmatic. you're saying that he doesn't understand where hip hop came from? he was one of the people making it happen. and in fact a lot of Jewish Americans played a very active role in supporting and promoting the careers of artists from the ghetto, whether it was jazz, doowop, soul, funk or hip hop. one of the big promoters of jazz back in the 30s were these two Armenian brothers. they had huge collections of jazz on vinyl. they would have crazy parties at their house every Sunday where they would give underground music a chance to shine. they weren't black either, and yet they understood the music very well and what about Everlast.. Irish American. long before House of Pain in the 90s, he was part of Ice-T's Rhyme Syndicate in the 80s. check this video - they interview the crew.. there's black dude's some asian cat and a young Everlast all chilling in Ice-T's studio. Ice_t was one of the people who invented gangster rap... and he his crew is multi-cultural.. cuz that's what hip hop is then in Toronto you have Snow and Whitey Don. two Irish-Canadian dudes who grew up in the projects in Scarborough where it's all hard Jamaican rudeboys. and those Jamaican cats accepted them as one of their own. people might laugh at Snow, but he's a real motherfucker. he got discovered by this Jamacian Deejay, and taken down to NYC where he got linked up with MC Shan of the Juice Crew in Queens. Shan and the Jamaican dude produced his album while Snow was in jail, and it sold 8 million copies. "the single from the album "Informer" remaining #1 on the American Billboard charts for seven consecutive weeks. "Informer" has been recorded twice in the Guinness Book of World Records as the best selling reggae single in U.S. history, as well as the highest charting reggae single in history." and I know I've personally talked to Jamaican reggae cats in Hamilton and Toronto who have mad love for Snow. the guy has shared the mic with Ninjaman and his homeboy Whitey Don.. I've heard haters in Toronto scoff at him, but they don't know the deal... the guy went down to NYC in the early 90s and worked with Jive records. he was in the studio helping produce Tribe Called Quest - Low End Theory. in 94 he did a track with Phife Dog and Chip-Fu from the Fu-Schnickens. and then you have Goldie... half Scottish, half Jamaican rudeboy. long before Grooverider, Kemistry and Storm and 4hero put him on to hardcore-jungle in 92, he was a b-boy. he came down to NCY in the early 80s and got his name making gold teeth. he made a bried appearance in one of the early breakdancing movies. does the fact that he is 1/2 "white" change things? hell no. and what about Malcolm Mclaren. manager for the sex-pistols. he's an artsy English guy, but was very active in pushing early hip hop in NYC, and kicked it with Grandmaster Flash and Rocksteady Crew. hip hop is multi-cultural... Kid Koala, A-Trak, Scratch Bastid - you saying these guys don't understand hip hop? lol. and as for saying nobody knows what life was like back in those early days... go back and check what I posted.. read what Afrika Bambaata had to say. and watch that documentary and hear what the gang members have to say about what their life is like in the South Bronx. it's a great documentary. interestingly, even though most of them are Puerto Rican or African-American, the one gang leader is the first person to say how multi-cultural their gang is.. people of different backgrounds, who all somehow wound up in the South Bronx. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ApR1zM a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 4:56pm |
 Coolness: 165030 | can someone recap recoil's point of view cause i cant read all this ME GOTZ SHITZ 2 DO YA KnoW1É!É!É
(no offence its just A FULL PAGE heaheaheah) |
| I'm feeling analyzing charts right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 5:01pm |
| Coolness: 86735 | ahahaha
hip hop is multi-cultural something like that |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 5:18pm |
 Coolness: 166775 | Originally Posted By APR1ZM
can someone recap recoil's point of view cause i cant read all this ME GOTZ SHITZ 2 DO YA KnoW1É!É!É (no offence its just A FULL PAGE heaheaheah) hip-hop is not race-exclusive. (then he goes on to site many fine examples).. :) --- --- --- anyways, you're all a bunch of crackers :p btw, isn't this the same argument the media was having about marilyn manson after the columbine shooting? everyone listens to angry music, there are lyrics are about any possible subject you can imagine, rich people listen to 50cent and poor people listen to celine dion, music is for everyone regardless of content or who you are.. the problem comes when people pretend to be something they're not, like a kid from montreal who thinks he's as badass as a kid from south-central l.a. and goes around shooting innocent girls... nothing to do with music, everything to do with personality and stupidity. (and i'm talking montreal, so don't go talking about rwanda and the bronx just to rebuke me about violence and culture! :p ) Mise À Jour » Nathan a écrit sur Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 5:19pm haha.. sorry recoil, didn't see that you already summarized yourself ;) |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» fishead a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 7:13pm |
 Coolness: 75900 | don't forget Arthur Baker... that guy was fuckin' everywhere... he produced Planet Rock, selected the soundtrack for Beat Street, remixed everybody from Cyndi Lauper to New Order... and still managed to find the time to put together his own classics (Breaker's Revenge!)...
not bad for a white guy with a mullet! |
| I'm feeling new records right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 9:05pm |
| Coolness: 86735 | Arthur Baker... I didn't know he did Planet Rock. I loved the video when I was a little kid
... edit. this video is actually different from the one they would always show on TV way back when it came out. that one was way better but I can't seem to find it. here's a couple other classics I remember seeing on TV from around the same time.. 82 or so |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PaLy a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 10:00pm |
 Coolness: 51950 | luv! |
| I'm feeling w00t! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil a répondu le Thu 13 Aug, 2009 @ 10:31pm |
| Coolness: 86735 | ya! it's crazy to realize that I watched those videos 27 years ago!
I remember back then.. a couple of my older friends wearing ridiculous b-boy gear, taking breakdancing lessons and walking around my neighbourhood with little ghettoblasters on their shoulder.. and this was in a small suburb lol. I wish i'd caught onto it then! I didn't really get it yet - I thought it was some weird fad. I was just into the Beatles and whatever my older sisters had on vinyl.. Billy Idol, OMD, XTC... etc etc. how time flies |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly a répondu le Fri 14 Aug, 2009 @ 12:22am |
 Coolness: 158965 | on a sidenote .. here is a cool documentary from the 70s about two of the major gangs in the South Bronx.
woah i had this movie, the original vhs copy at the brooklyn store where i used to work.. it is a great doc. very rare in circulation... i was just talking about that movie with a friend the other night.. |
| I'm feeling hitched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Psyborg a répondu le Fri 14 Aug, 2009 @ 12:46am |
 Coolness: 105910 | Originally Posted By RECOIL
I love that song so bad! "Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge, I'm trying not to lose my head." I'm more into 90's hip-hop, I know this stuff more because I was too young in the 80's to remember much of it (I was born in 1982). Here's some that I really like: |
| I'm feeling i love terrorcore right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ApR1zM a répondu le Fri 14 Aug, 2009 @ 1:17pm |
| Coolness: 165030 | its like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how i keep from going under |
| I'm feeling analyzing charts right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JasonBeastly a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 2:00am |
 Coolness: 76940 | Ok. Well. It seems that Liam and Hamish are convined I'm a racist.
Think what you want. But don't tell me that race is a construct shit in a society that clearly has a preference for people of a lighter skin colour. The term "minority" even supposes this. I never said I agreed with it. It's just a fact of North American culture. After the fact, someone may come along and call you an Anglo, a Kraut, a Frog, a Pollak, a Heeb... but they didn't make that snap judgment as quickly as they did when they saw a black male with a baseball cap and baggy clothes. It's bullshit. You will never experience the prejudice that a Kenyan family who emigrates here will experience unless you come from the same place, with the same skin colour. Living in Africa does not disqualify you from your privelege. Don't pretend it does. So to reiterate I feel that the crime came before any sort of music, meaning that this crime (people shot outside Blue Dog) should not be pinned to the music, but to the individuals. Seems this wasn't clear. But somehow everything shifted the minute I dared to say that the "80s hip hop was about having a good time" argument was moot. Hip hop released today is still about having a good time. Rap is still party music. But it's not like it was some sort of Carpenters ballad. The very fact that people would write good time music that warned about the perils of coke addiction or life on the streets indicates that the societal problem was there first. Where, exactly, do any of you feel specifically that I was racist? In saying that we live in a safety bubble outside of these high-crime neighbourhoods? It's true! We're not dealing with anything, any of us, that allows us to understand the nature of this sort of a crime, the who or why. The very fact that this thread about a shooting has devolved into a celebration of 80s hip hop shows that people really feel some sort of glamourization of the glorious past will somehow convince the violent and ignorant dicks with guns to stop being that way. And that is just fucking obtuse. Drugs, and by extension crime are/is everywhere. Many of the people involved in this argument do them. And there's a shitload of bad shit going down to bring them to you. So don't get on your high horse about having nothing to do with gangs and gun violence. We support it every day whether we realize it or not. But oh yeah, I must be racist. I at least have the guts to be controversial instead of hiding behind a bunch of politically correct bullshit that prevents you from ever sounding prejudiced. Go ahead and erase yourself with your non-opinions and neutral politics. Because that's what being white is, being a neutral robot who never, ever dares admit that they're a victim of pop-culture programming. You need to read your McLuhan a bit closer. Read about appropriation and how it is the typically post-colonial, North American way of life. Because that's what we are all doing. So yeah. We're white, so we don't get it like we wish we could. All we do is try hard to compensate for the fact that we are being served our sense of culture and national identity through the media. Meanwhile if somebody like myself comes along and says that it's tiresome to hear white dudes talk about rap like they're some sort of authorities because of their record collection, I'm supposedly racist for saying that you're only getting a mediated experience of that culture? So what if I'm included in that? We only know what we read in the media, be it digital or otherwise. Don't take that for granted. |
| I'm feeling mighty frisky right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» recoil a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 4:40am |
| Coolness: 86735 | Originally Posted By LUKEPERIL
Ok. Well. It seems that Liam and Hamish are convined I'm a racist. dude come on now. I don't think you're a racist. I know you better than that. I definitely don't agree with some assumptions you made, and the stereotyping of white people but whateva. I'm an opinionated prick sometimes - especially about music, and I like to debate semantics. it's just another thread and I really ain't giving it any thought right now. sincere apology to you is it came off as a personal attack on you. peace! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 11:07am |
 Coolness: 129950 | Originally Posted By LUKEPERIL
Ok. Well. It seems that Liam and Hamish are convined I'm a racist. What you said was racially biased, it you don't want it to sound racist don't include a colour If you had said "another dumb asian opinion", or "another dumb black opinion" instead, don't you think that would sound slightly racist? Does to me Originally Posted By LUKEPERIL
It's bullshit. You will never experience the prejudice that a Kenyan family who emigrates here will experience unless you come from the same place, with the same skin colour. Hahaha...so to know what racism is I gotta be from Kenya? lol... Newsflash, racism exists everywhere and even black people can be racist, so can any other group & yeah I've experienced racism, especially living in a country when I was in the minority P.S. Kenyans are super nice people by the way, great country, although they've being having some ETHNIC problems lately where different ETHNIC groups are KILLING each other based on their BACKGROUND and ETHNICITY. Definitly have a huge problem with prejudice over there :( Anyhow thank god I live in a peaceful multicultural country that Canada! |
| I'm feeling sunshine right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Holly_Golightly a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 1:08pm |
| Coolness: 158965 | Originally Posted By LUKEPERIL
We're not dealing with anything, any of us, that allows us to understand the nature of this sort of a crime, the who or why. Because that's what being white is, being a neutral robot who never, ever dares admit that they're a victim of pop-culture programming. Because that's what we are all doing. So yeah. We're white, so we don't get it like we wish we could. i agree with a lot of what you saying... but... yeah you should go say that to my white husband who worked for irc in Guinea and Liberia or to my white dad who fought along the Sandinista against the Contras.... ha! you seem good to talk but you, YOU, what did you do to change things? you sound like an onanist. i know a lot of black suburban dudes who didn't do shit.. and what about white youth who have the same social location than an Afro-American ghetto teen? i think that yes Afros or immigrants have a lesser chance at life than other Americans for sure but i think what determines mostly the course of your life is way more your social location than your ethnicity or race or religion etc... i think you should judge someone individually by their actions not the color of their skin. think about it/ Mise À Jour » Holly_Golightly a écrit sur Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 1:11pm ps: oh! and yeah "someone" w/ an extensive record collection who knows better than any of us what music is all about is kind of being able to build a better opinion than a person who doesn't/. |
| I'm feeling hitched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JasonBeastly a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 5:48pm |
| Coolness: 76940 | Ok whatever, I'm a wanker (onanist) and a racist because I didn't make a broad sweeping generalization that covered all the countries in the world and all the possible racist scenarios that exist. But listen, ye who does not onanize, let ye cast the first, I dunno, cumshot.
I was talking about North America for the record, once again I will point that out. I do not doubt that white people experience racism in countries where they are the minority. But don't throw that sort of strawman on me, because that was not the context of my argument. I was talking about this board, in this country, with the people it comprises, not their husbands, wives, fuckbuddies, dogs, priests, and mothers. Also I chose Kenya as an example because I have very close friends from Kenya who now live in North Carolina, where they are experiencing typical redneck American racism. Anyone who took offense at what I was saying, and I don't feel the need to quote you all, seems to have taken what I said and applied it as if it was a blanket statement against all white people. Well that's nice, it seems that you'd hate to have to admit that yes, you do have it easier in a country where whites are in charge. Tough pill to swallow but it is true. May I remind you I also am white, not to mention that I have to deal with being labelled an Anglophone over here, a Frog in Toronto, and a Nazi or Kraut if I try to clarify that I'm actually also half German. I really don't think it compares to being called a Paki or a Nigger though, because there isn't quite as much hatred behind it. Hatred that also includes generalizations that Indian people smell like curry and are filthy people, that Arabs are insane terrorists, that black people steal bikes, eat fried chicken and watermelon, and can't swim. That's racism. What I said? A little bit controversial but not racist. Provocative you may say. But not built on hatred and generalizations of people. I think it's a little bit pathetic to complain that you're the victim of racism as a white person, bt yeah, I've experienced it too. However, if someone wants to stupidly say that I hate jews and that because my grandfather was conscripted into the Nazis that my family was immoral for not wanting to be exterminated that I am also a Nazi, it usually does not contain as much hate as a statement made against a "visible minority". I in fact usually feel that there is a need to explain the social ills that led to a country being fooled into adopting fascism, and then having no way out. But this continent was definitely colonized by whites with whites in mind. You can ask anybody over at Oka about that. Also, if we were talking about ethnic cleansing in African countries, I would have mentioned that. And I would have gone on to talk about the many complex economic reasons that these race wars are happening in Africa, and who profits from these civil wars. But that's non sequitor to an argument about gun violence. It's perhaps a nice footnote but that's not the subject or context. My point was actually exactly what Betty Haze said, that we should judge people individually, not for the colour of their skin. But I was extending that to say that I felt that automatically blaming gangster rap vs. hip hop is about the same thing. It really has nothing to do with why this shooting took place. Feel free to extrapolate more things that I never said out of this paragraph. I am waiting to see what I get accused of next for being articulate and straightforward, because obviously a lot of you feel the need to read between the lines and draw irrelevant conclusions from what I say. I would expect DJ Bliss over here to be the first one to start calling everyone a racist, it's actually been a while since you were saying everyone on here was racist, after all. So I guess you're back to being a good old douchebag and throwing around words you hardly know how to use. I argue that we are in a cultural vacuum in most of Canada, with the sole exception perhaps of Canada and Iqualuut. This is what I am saying. That no matter where you come from, we have a screen-door immigration system and we are slowly approaching the melting pot version of multiculturalism. And being white in this culture makes your background invisible, generally speaking, and most definitely guarantees better treatment from Johnny Law and the media. So, let the wild accusations fly! What have I said wrong now, you room of honkies? |
| I'm feeling mighty frisky right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 6:03pm |
 Coolness: 159000 | tl;dr.
Actually, it's the racism part that turned me off. Why did this most interesting thread get derailed? This ain't a friggin' contest over who understands racism the most. Or shouldn't be, IMHO. We're lucky to be living in a pretty open-minded environment, and I don't believe that any of you hold any racist thoughts. So stop flinging the term at each other, please. |
| I'm feeling chaos incarnate right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MolocH a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 6:13pm |
 Coolness: 226505 | Guy get drunk.
Guy gets turned down by hot chick. Guy shoots some other guy. It ends up on rave-wave. Thread get derailed. Hopeless righteous piss all over it with super strenght righteousness. Logik progression. Carrier return, line feed. :) Mise À Jour » MolocH a écrit sur Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 6:16pm Damn, did I miss this place.
Nice to be back. |
| I'm feeling vindicative right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 6:34pm |
| Coolness: 159000 | Hey Moloch, welcome back :) |
| I'm feeling chaos incarnate right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MolocH a répondu le Sat 15 Aug, 2009 @ 6:44pm |
| Coolness: 226505 | Originally Posted By MASA
Hey Moloch, welcome back :) Gee thanks:) I luffs the comebacks:) |
| I'm feeling vindicative right now.. | |
People Shot Outside Blue Dog Last Night
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