Do you not know how to read, deadfunk, it takes more plants to be omnivore than if the plants themselves were consumed. Put two and two together. It's not that hard.

How is sharing information shitting on people. Propaganda is spreading false information, right? I haven't done that. Please tell me where you think I have done that.

I'm not against anyone at all... I wish the best for everyone. The more information that is out there and shared, the better IMO. What do you think I have to personally gain from sharing this info? It's certainly not popularity.

Maybe it would have been easier for a lot of people who were part of social movements to shut up, be quiet, and have everyone like them... but they chose to stand up for others anyways. For some reason, certain people just aren't able to stand there silently while they witness serious injustices that could be avoided.

Yes, talking about it IS the way to bring change. Sure the majority of people might not take to it, they've grown up being used to whatever they were indoctrinated with.. but there will always be people like me who were just waiting to find the info and make some changes.

N get off of that ageist crap, please, children are often much more intelligent than adults.

I'll just be very upset when the Flames beat the Canadiens... mostly because of morale for the cities... Calgary is like our arch enemy in the scheme of things (ok I know I know I shouldn't be pitting Canada against itself... oh hell!)

I'll just be thinking of those drunken redneck assholes celebrating. COME ON, BEAT THE FLAMES, ARGH!

There are some very shallow (yet muddy, so dark, so you can't see that it's shallow) pools and lakes...

OH I just realized... Jesus was living around the Dead Sea.. right.. right!?? Well.. people float in the Dead Sea. It's actually very hard to go under water there because of all the salt or something. I've heard it's pretty trippy. That might have had something to do with it.

You're right karma.millie, plants can feel. All living things can. They can't feel on any comparable level to what animals can, though. There is a lot of scientific evidence to prove that. Even if we did not have that evidence, and plants did feel as much as animals do (even if they feel *more* than animals do), it's still causing less suffering to eat the plants themselves, since that consumes less plants than if they were fed to animals first.

The information I share is of no benefit to me, so no, I don't see how it could be propaganda. Propaganda is generally used by people, a government, *companies* (like the livestock industry) who have something to lose or gain from you.

only if there were some super sturdy lily pads.

edit: and only if Jesus wasn't made up 200 years after his death like it seems he was. Oh history, it's written by the victors.

My post is long and thought-out, so if you don't want to read it, don't (or skim to the part that applies to you).




I can respond to those both at the same time:

...when breatharianism becomes a reality, I'll look into it more. Until then, I'm going to consume the things that have no NOCICEPTORS. The point is to minimize harm caused as much as possible. Life requires other life to live. The life we consume to live ourselves does not have to have nociceptors (developed pain receptors) that all animals have, and plants DO NOT have. Yes, they may feel on some level (and I believe they do), but not in a comparable way to animals (which includes all vertebrates and invertebrates). In any case, you have to kill many more plants to feed an animal and eat it/its products, than to get the nutrition first hand from the plants themselves.



Yeah it's difficult being in the minority, no matter how good your intentions are or what you say, "the other side" will probably not take it seriously and you're right, it feels pointless. I felt like the contradiction was too blatantly absurd not to point out.



I'm not trying to make friends by pointing out hypocrisies and fallacies, just like when I counter anti-homosexuality, egocentricity, or any other form of bigotry. There are bigger issues at hand than my personal popularity.

When I was first responding to the pro-harm posts, I specifically pointed out that I was not personally against anyone, etc etc and I chose my words very carefully and was super kind about it. Then I was jumped on, attacked more, and was like "OK then, fuck you too, no more sugar coating, blabla" and maybe I should have stayed nice despite the ignorant attacks, I shouldn't have sunk down to their level.



You have no moral rights to tell (or force) other animals how to live their lives. I don't consider other peoples' freedom to torture others as a real freedom.. it's an ABUSE of freedom. Who's freedom is in more dire need of being protected - the people who cause suffering to others, or the victims of that abuse, who are being deprived of their ABSOLUTE freedoms?

I think it's a very fair question to ask, and thing to point out... why do people think it's not OK in one circumstance to torture an animal (the cat in the video) when it's unnecessary... but that it is OK to torture an animal in other circumstances where it's also unnecessary?



Well if someone is actually creating the demand and paying for the torture of other animals, then yes, that's what it is. People always hate the bearer of bad news. It keeps being diverted into a personal thing, and I only care to talk about the facts.



Pets ARE animals. A cat is a cat is a cat, whether its in your home or in a lab being chopped up and hurled around to test pointless shit on... a sentient being is a sentient being is a sentient being... a beagle is still a beagle when it's getting lethal chemicals poured down its throat, that could have been tested in other ways. A chicken has all the nerve endings and feelings that a puppy does.

None of them are a "necessity" to live. Nutrients are a necessity to live, and NONE of them have to come from animals.




Huh? Of course I care about their welfare, that's why I try to defend their right to be free and not tortured by us...

Hah, veganism is not the extremism here... the extremism is the abuse that happened to the cat in the video. The extremism is the abuse that happens, UNNECESSARILY, to every single animal that is abused, pointlessly by humans. Useless, cruel, extreme violence like what happened to the poor cat.



Exactly. Our inefficient system of livestock versus the efficiency of feeding our society on a vegan diet... the fact that honey bees are disappearing when we need them to pollenate, and now more than ever we have to stop feeding 90% of the soy and corn that's grown in this continent to livestock and instead feed it to HUMANS to get the most we can our of our land... instead of cutting down the rainforest, increasing pollution to harm our future generations... to stop using all of our hard earned TAX money on SUBSIDIZATION OF THE LIVESTOCK INDUSTRY... especially now that we are in a state of economic difficulty.

I've come to this frame of mind because of looking at all the different sides. I'm an advocate of science, logic, reasoning. This isn't a spiritual/fad thing for me (though I'm not dissing the people who are). It's important to take all the different things into account. Every time I do, the logical solution is veganism. It can't solve all the world's problems but it would sure help with a lot of them.



I wonder, then, how those vegan tribes managed to grow and develop like we did. Our brains developed a certain way because of the nutrients we received, not where we got them from. Most people don't know that you can get absolutely all of the same (and often more) nutrients from a vegan diet, which is why they keep the old fallacies.

karma.millie - well if the animal who went into the hamburger was tortured (which it almost definitely was), then yes that would be causing an animal to be tortured. This isn't a personal attack at all it's just a fact :(

...and if farm animal abuse was posted, the reaction would NOT be the same unfortunately (as we've seen in other threads).

Bigots are pathetic.

Yeah you're right. I like (her) eyes a lot though.

Gorgeous I think. Photoshopped tho?

^^ I want ^^

Yeah it deserves an award *happy sarcasm*

Heh. How do you figure I'm falling for anything?

You guys speak your piece and I speak mine.

I saw it as absurd that you can all cry over one animal who is being harmed but condone the mass torture of others (even of the same species). So I commented on it instead of being a "good little silent observer".

I couldn't care less if you aren't OK with someone else posting a perspective that's different from your own.

Some things don't deserve to be left alone... like animals (including humans) being abused. Or should the animal abuse video that you guys just cried over be left alone?

When are you going to learn that your baiting me is so overdone/juvenille and not upsetting me?

From your messages and reactions to what happened to the cat in the video, it looks like you *do* care. So, by seeing those reactions to the video, I said "heh!" and thought "these people should walk their talk".

How do you figure you don't torture a cow if you pay someone to do it for you, when you don't even need to do it?



Something being in the "natural order of things" doesn't make it right, especially now that we've gone beyond the natural order of things.

Factory farming is not in the natural order of things. Getting all the nutrients you need to survive and be healthy IS in the natural order of things, and we don't need to consume animals and their byproducts to do it.

Ever since when has consuming another species' maternity fluid in the natural order of things? Seems more like a perversion of nature to me.



You also have the right to go to another country and fuck a 9 year old where it's legal, but that doesn't make it OK :P That's also "in the natural order of things".

Natural does not = good

Even if you think something being natural should justify everything, there are humans who live naturally, in the mountains and jungles, without consuming any animals at all.



Are you telling me that none of your household cleaning products/shampoos/conditioners etc were tested on animals, and that you've never bought standard dog/cat food?



Hahaha where did Peta come into this? Talk about obscure references... go do some research and learn that most vegans aren't a part of Peta, and don't agree with a lot of the stuff they do...

Host_One, cows/chickens etc have the same amount of nerve endings and feelings as cats do.

Also, dogs/cats are horribly abused and murdered, even worse than in the vid, to "test" for products that you use like household cleaners etc (I doubt you only buy products that were "not tested on animals"). PLUS they are senselessly beaten, abused, tortured, for the kibbles and bits that are fed to your own precious kitties and puppies! PLUS, those cats/dogs often end up in the catfood/dogfood itself.

I find it FUCKING AMAZING how you people can get go "aw no the poor cat" and want to harm the sick person who did those things to it...

BUT YOU DO THE SAME EXACT THINGS TO OTHER ANIMALS and other cats. Then you get mad at people like me who say "don't treat animals that way!" and call us "self-righteous bitches" if we try to convince you not to harm other animals pointlessly... so maybe you're all "self-righteous bitches" and "imposing on someone else's freedom" by trying to stop people from abusing cats! (hah)

Wow. Just wow. Good job on consistency there.

I like tits too but I think "tits or gtfo" sends a message that that's the bulk of a female's worth.

N be nice to kandy kids <3 they are so snuggly.

Poor squid.

I don't "call it" made from pine nuts, it IS. Unfortunately for you, you've never tried it. To you, Host, it looks like diarrhea. to everyone who's tried it, it tastes and feels like heaven ^^

Did he get scurvy!??

If it's nasty, why do you do it? Anyhoo! Keeping with the flow of the thread:


raw vegan dehyd pizza with pine nut "cheez" OMNOM. ^^


raw vegan lasagna with dehyd seed crackers ^^


here's one with pesto n roasted peppers n direct kalamata action

and another one...

especially if those people don't have licenses. maybe they will.

I'm sorry, are you guys under the impression that you're upsetting me?

I don't eat tofu ^^ or any other soy, lol.

Aren't there physically and mentally addictive qualities in it?



When has anyone ever posted tofu here? The only vegans I know don't eat tofu. Of course, soy is spiked in most omnivore food.

Excellent :) We can have a few fire dancers then.

Ashley, I can bring some food too... like fruit kabobs and hummus or something.

I have 3 (maybe 4) 4 foot long blacklights I can bring, 2 2foot blacklights, and a lot of material for wall hangings depending on where the venue is. This includes a ton of dark thick material that might help block out morning sunlight.

I think the shadowing idea was a good one. Clandestine Lab - Wonderland on the 28th seems like a very good one to do it at.

I think the photos I provided were sufficient, version, but just in case you need me to reiterate:



and music/singing but that'll be with live sets in the future.

Just to be fair after your chauvanistic (sp?) response... lol... "stfu or gtf out"

I don't see parties here as being very expensive (for the most part) ... in the west they are often much more expensive, because I think the government makes it a lot harder for them to happen, bigger license fees imposed etc. I keep finding amazing parties that are around the 10 dollar range, which is super cheap. When they *do* cost a lot, they are also a mind-blowing art gallery (i.e. Mainframe etc) and worth every penny. The DJ's and visual artists still work for next to nothing.

Free venues... there are many in this great town... so many places from our heritage that society no longer wants. It's OK, *we* still appreciate them and they are just waiting to be put to good use :)

Oh and Ashley if you would like, I can provide some entertainment.

wahahahahahahahahahahaha

I AM IN LOVE WITH THE FUNKY TALKING CHICK. She is so awesome. How can someone be that awesome. <3<3<3 I wanna hold your hand...

...and what do you think would happen if I posted a thread about vegan food?? I'm sure many people would get their tits in a knot and post a bunch of pictures of gored animals etc. But that wouldn't be considered "preaching"... lol...



hahahahaha. Yeah I guess I would ignite socks, if they were made of kevlar and stuck on the end of chains... :D

I wouldn't have defended gays if you hadn't attacked them by using a prejudiced slur as a simile of the word "stupid".

Riiiiight and when you do it from the other side, it's not?

Mickos: je ne suis pas nee vegan (too bad).

How do you figure I wasn't being spoken to? Were you just having a conversation with the air?

wtf is that?! LOL

I often respond as I'm spoken to.

I don't ignite socks, I ignite kevlar :)

I'm not a hippy, but I don't take that as an insult... I kinda like hippies. They tend to be really nice people.

Shit, all this defending myself has gotten me hungry for a veganana split:

I don't need humans for sex. My vegan food gets me off very nicely thanks (I hope you can tell I'm being silly/joking around).

Host - thanks for calling me Joan Baez, she is amazing.

I was born Jewish too, fuckwad, and I can call people out for being prejudiced ignorant disgusting fools if I want to. :)

I don't eat tofu, lol.

I love how if someone posts about bacon etc, they're just posting about food, but if someone posts vegan food, it's "preaching".

Hahaha. This thread keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

I'll remind you that you're the one who started talking about veganism here ^^ hahaha

I'll be happy to drop it if you are... lol..

What, you mean, like this? spicy vegan peanut eggplant soup:



I wouldn't have done it if you hadn't said it... good job on getting me going, hahaha!!

It's in good jest when I post food, in humor, and in appropriate threads WHICH ARE ABOUT FOOD. I'm not *trying* to make the topic turn towards vegan food, that's not why I posted it... People post about food they enjoy. I post mine. It was also in blatant comedic retaliation to the comedic anti-vegan posts that were put up after the conflict.

So why are YOU starting a discussion about it, in a thread that has nothing to do with vegan food (which has nothing to do with anything it seems, anyways)?

Where did you get 16 from?



People with nazi mentality can be born to any denomination. Being born Jewish doesn't make you immune to being a prejudiced tool.

Has anyone else noticed that it's photoshoped? XD

maybe it's not but those are some pretty unique proportions and lighting.

To prespond (new miche-ism! yay) anyone who has nothing better to add to the convo than "your posts r too long wahhhhh". If you don't like my detailed posts, don't read them. Or scan to the part that addresses you.



I think if he was raised by wolves he would probably have a much more reasonable and practical view towards life.



Putting down others makes bullies feel better about themselves. Supposedly 80% of all bullies were once bullied themselves. People who abuse others (like parents->children) were often abused themselves.



Yes it's in the culture, not the religion.



Exactly. If it weren't for religion, it would be a lot harder to get people to kill one another. It could still be done, but not as easily. GWB&co were very good at it, scaring everyone into terrorizing civilians to protect themselves from terrorists. XD



I'll try to explain it better. I know Jews were poor until very recently. They had to try extra hard and place a large value on education BECAUSE they were poor/persecuted, because they needed to be superior in academics to survive. Now we all have equal opportunity, but the family-encouraged importance put on education and study still remains from those many generations of harder times.

Did you know that even when my parents were going to university, there was actually a limit on the amount of Jews that were allowed to study at McGill per year? Crazy, eh? Even in very recent history, people who were born Jewish were forced to try extra hard if they wanted to succeed.

It's like when you take a cold shower and then jump into a room temp pool. The water seems much warmer than if you didn't take that cold shower first.



Oh this is fun. Where did Indian reincarnation come into this thread? Did I miss something? Please, someone help me out here... XD

cutterhead, all the other animals evolved with non-heterosexual members too.




Tell it to my apocalyptic provisions.



Your saying that I profane evolution is a profanity to evolution. Now please evolve out of hatred and into some kindness... no, you don't have to smoke pot and have sex with trees to do that, everyone is capable of it, tree-fucker or not. XD



hahahahah (I'm not laughing WITH you, cutterhead)



Wow, someone makes a lot of very silly assumptions. Where did you get the idea that I have a religion? You don't need to believe in supernatural things to love nature or value kindness etc.
How about waiting until you know someone better before claiming you know every aspect of their lives, based on nothing but assumption?

Please learn: omnisexuals and bisexuals aren't open to fucking ANYTHING. That's like saying that a heterosexual person is open to fucking *anyone* of the opposite gender.



I feel slightly bad about laughing at someone who's obviously sick so I'm going to try to restrain myself.

16? That's a very exact number XD I post my vegangasms where it's (IMO) appropriate and for fun, without any thought of steering a convo to it. It's not hurting anyone so get over it. Observe, vegangasm creamy pumpkin pies, wahaha:

cutterhead - Transgendered surgeries are not covered by public health funds. Those people pay for them out of their own pockets. They are not taking our health care money. There are a few harmful vile industries that are, though, but I won't get into it.

You misdirect your anger. You can transform it into something more positive if you put your mind to it.