Preloading (for Mdma)
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PoiSoNeD_CaNdY a répondu le Tue 11 Mar, 2003 @ 8:48pm |
 Coolness: 91810 | The subtle art of nutritional supplements.
You may not be a health food nut, but there are some very handy things on the shelf of your local granola-and-tofu store. Some supplements can reduce side effects, help the hangover, and even keep you safe. Antioxidants We've all seen oxidation. It's what rusts metal. It's what turns a slice of apple or banana brown if left exposed to the air. Oxidation is what's happening when laundry bleach ruins your clothes, or hydrogen peroxide lightens your hair. (Chemically, "oxidation" means electrical charge is being pulled off a molecule/atom.) Why dose this matter to you and me? Because oxidation is also something that's constantly going on in our bodies. Virtually all of our metabolic processes produce oxidizing chemicals (like hydrogen peroxide.) As our metabolism and demands on our body go up, more of these oxidizing chemicals are produced. When we take a drug, our body's breakdown of the drug creates even more oxidative stress on our cells and tissues. (Visit Neurotoxicity for more information about this process.) In fact, it's this process of producing oxidizing chemicals while drugs are being broken down that can cause liver damage from many drugs such as alcohol. In the case of amphetamine-type drugs (including MDMA) this has a special significance, since these drugs are drawn into your brain and broken down in there as well as in the body, which can lead to neurotoxicity (damage to brain cells) in extreme cases. The good news is, your body knows exactly how to deal with such things. First, it has enzymes that break down these oxidizers as they are being produced. Second, your body has a lot of antioxidants floating around in it. An antioxidant is a chemical that neutralizes oxidizers (but is used up in the process.) As a result, unusual demands on your metabolism (such as smoking, drinking, or using MDMA) tend to drop the levels of antioxidants (because they use them up.) What does this mean for you, the responsible drug user? Well, it means that taking some antioxidants before and after your drug use can help prevent damage to your cells. Sound like a good idea? You bet! Here are some popular antioxidants: • Vitamin C: Also known as ascorbic acid, vitamin C is found in large amounts in citrus fruits like limes, oranges, and grapefruit. Besides being an antioxidant, vitamin C is important to the immune system. Vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, so it mainly stays in the blood and other water-rich parts of cells like the cytoplasm. • Vitamin E: Nutritionally important, this vitamin is also a good antioxidant. Vitamin E is lipid (fat) soluble, which allows it to penetrate deeply into fatty tissues (including the brain) and even get inside of cell walls. In one experiment, mice fed a severely vitamin E deficient diet suffered serious neurotoxicity when given a large dose of MDMA, while mice on a normal diet were unharmed! • Alpha-lipoic acid (ALA): ALA is an interesting antioxidant because it is both lipid-soluble and water-soluble, allowing it to get virtually anywhere in the body. As a downside, ALA is more irritating to the stomach than E and C, limiting the amount that can be comfortably taken. ALA may also be broken down very quickly in the body. • Melatonin: Traditionally sold as a sleep aid, melatonin is a very effective antioxidant on a per-weight basis, but at the doses recommended (as little as 0.25 mg) would be fairly ineffective to use simply as an antioxidant. Since I don't know what the consequences of high doses (100 mg or more) would be, I don't recommend melatonin for this purpose. • Green Tea, Grape Skin Extract, etc.: These substances have significant antioxidant properties, but are relatively unresearched. What should I take? How much? For antioxidants, I suggest Vitamin C and E, simply because they are generally well-tolerated, inexpensive, readily available, and fairly well researched (in the context of both general health and MDMA use.) Vitamin C and E are also two of the body's main normal antioxidants and work well together. Try 1-3 tablets/capsules of each over the course of the day before and/or the day of MDMA use. A little more the day after can't hurt either. If you don't want to be bothered with elaborate plans, a capsule each of C and E several hours before use should still be beneficial. Is taking antioxidants necessary? Not at all. But, it's such an easy and cheap way to help your body deal with stress and recover that it seems perverse not to. A word on the benefits of antioxidants: There isn't a magic or 'special' antioxidant that you need. Any antioxidant at all should be helpful, and taking many different ones isn't necessarily better than taking one or two. They also aren't a cure-all. Antioxidants can give you a larger safety margin, but do not guarantee that nothing bad can happen. Take all the usual precautions (avoiding prolonged dancing in hot environments, get moderate (but not excessive) water intake, and don't mix drugs. What the heck is 5-HTP? 5-HTP is the chemical your brain uses to make more serotonin. Since MDMA use depletes serotonin, 5-HTP is a quite useful tool for recovering after use. Taking a little 5-HTP can prevent the more notorious possible aftereffects of MDMA use, such as depression and anxiety for a day or two (which is mostly due to low serotonin levels.) For the curious, the full biological pathway for serotonin production is: 1. The amino acid tryptophan is digested from protein in your food. 2. The tryptophan is turned in 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) by an enzyme in your brain called Tryptophan Hydroxylase. 3. The 5-HTP is converted in 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT, better known as "serotonin") by another enzyme called Aromatic Amino Acid Decarboxylase. As a practical matter, most of the tryptophan and 5-HTP are broken down by the decarboxylase enzyme long before they get to the brain, but the brain doesn't need much. So, it's Food --> Tryptophan --> 5-HTP --> serotonin. 5-HTP is particularly useful because it's the last link in the chain, making it the most effective way to enhance serotonin production with a supplement. 5-HTP has traditionally be taken as a sleep aid, natural antidepressant, and weight loss aid (all of which are the result of it's enhancement of serotonin levels.) It has become much more popular with the realization of how it could benefit MDMA users. How should I use 5-HTP? In the context of using MDMA, I'd suggest one capsule two hours before taking the MDMA (entirely optional), another capsule when you come down, and one a day for several days afterwards. If you feel irritable or depressed, take one more capsule as needed. Can taking a bunch of 5-HTP before using MDMA make the high more intense/last longer? To some extent, yes. By increasing the amount of serotonin available to be released, 5-HTP can help MDMA work. However, doing so introduces a new unknown factor. If you try this, take one or two capsules two hours before taking the MDMA. The effect isn't likely to be dramatic, but can help ensure that you get the full effect of the MDMA. Could I get high just from taking 5-HTP? Sort of. If being slightly cheerful and giddy for 10-15 minutes is worth a day of feeling sick (severe gas, vomiting, diarrhea, etc.) One of the things that has constantly amazed me is the adventurousness of drug users: If you can think of it, somebody has probably tried it. Massive doses of 5-HTP have been tried, and the results were less than encouraging if you want to get high. Where do you get 5-HTP? Health food stores and drug stores/pharmacies often carry 5-HTP, or you can order some online. Mail order can be much less expensive. Other Supplements • Zinc: Many users report that taking zinc supplements greatly reduces the tendency to clench your teeth while on MDMA. I haven't tried it myself, but the idea really makes sense. (Zinc ions are involved in controlling nerve firing.) Zinc may also prevent the 'eye wiggles' side effect sometimes seen with MDMA, although that one doesn't seem to actually bother anybody.) • Calcium and potassium: No known benefit, and may make jaw clenching, etc. worse. (These small metal ions promote nerve firing.) • L-DOPA, Tyrosine, and Alanine: These are precursors to dopamine, just as tryptophan and 5-HTP are precursors to serotonin. L-DOPA is normally prescription-only, and should be considered as dangerous. Tyrosine is considerably less potent at producing dopamine, alanine is the least effective of all. Both are sometimes used to enhance the MDMA high by supporting dopamine production. I regard this practice as being of questionable safety: Dopamine appears to be the main contributor to heatstroke and death in animal overdose and neurotoxicity experiments. While the risks probably aren't terribly great, I cannot recommend this practice in the absence of further research. Besides, if you can't enjoy MDMA for what it is, perhaps it's time to give it up. taken from [ www.thedea.org ] note: if your looking for 5-htp in montreal i just bought some from a health food store underneath the bay (on sale for 11$) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope a répondu le Tue 11 Mar, 2003 @ 9:34pm |
 Coolness: 201345 | In my psych class a lady who works with the mentally ill was giving a speach and she talked about how tons of new cases are of kids who took E, even once, and now have long term mental problems.
I thought that was an interesting point. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PoiSoNeD_CaNdY a répondu le Tue 11 Mar, 2003 @ 10:04pm |
| Coolness: 91810 | Based on the studies done so far, the one mental problem associated with ecstasy is depression due to serontonin depletion (which will gradually build up once the person stops taking ecstasy). That is why its best to use occasionaly, so the brain has time to restore its levels of serontonin. 5-htp, the direct precusor to serontonin, can also help reduce ecstasy depression by reducing the time it takes to restore normal serontonin levels. Ecstasy can cause lots of problems if you dont take proper precations or act stupidly (bad drug combos, use every week, etc) but it also can be used safely. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead a répondu le Tue 11 Mar, 2003 @ 10:07pm |
 Coolness: 685710 | Go figgure. After doing MDMA, I was cheerfull and happy for a week. Gives you an idea how depressed I normally am if the "depression" associated with MDMA use makes me happier than I am normally. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» mdc a répondu le Tue 11 Mar, 2003 @ 10:22pm |
 Coolness: 148935 | im telling you man.. vacation...
but anyhoo... (as much as i am against the use of drugs) scientific studies have shown that mdma(or something like it) has beneficial effects on people with parkinson's disease... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Purple_Lee a répondu le Tue 11 Mar, 2003 @ 10:51pm |
 Coolness: 238740 | I almost always have friut after a party and take vitamine c
Lee |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ontheroadagain a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 1:02am |
 Coolness: 54455 | yup fruit is the way to go...in scientific terms: it has good stuff in the skin,which pills dont have...
i always suggest eating the actual fruit or veggie itself, rather than popping a pill that has the vits or mins in it (although the pill is better than nothing, or a poutine) Oh and i would love to know what long-term mental problems these kids get...along with the symptoms,family history,diet,age groups and definition of "mental problem" The best psych teacher i ever had told us all one very important bit of knowledge..."Don't ever get put into a psych ward, because no matter what you do, you'll be viewed as crazy." (ask your psych teacher about the test done where completely normal, intelligent people went in saying they heard a "ping" noise now and then...were put away, and kept there even though they showed no signs of mental illness afterwards....they were only released when the study was brought to the attention of the hospital directors) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» flatlinedive a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 2:21pm |
| Coolness: 64025 | interesting read......just wondering though, i had always heard that when taking fat soluble vitamins you must be careful to not exceed the recommended dosage because unlike the water soluble vitamins it is stored in your cells and could end up doing your body harm if you take too much (for example taking an iron supplement when you aren't iron deficient)
also, are they finally selling melatonin in canada? it used to be illegal. i looked for it a while ago to help me sleep but wherever i looked they said they didn't sell it. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» El_Presidente a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 2:22pm |
 Coolness: 299445 | nah still illegal. But you can order em thru the internet. we have been ordering crates of it for the last 5 years |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PitaGore a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 2:37pm |
 Coolness: 471925 | Such a useful post Dan.
Thanks ! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 4:16pm |
| Coolness: 201345 | mdma is like playing Russian roulette with your brain |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ontheroadagain a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 4:34pm |
| Coolness: 54455 | why? |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ontheroadagain a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 5:13pm |
| Coolness: 54455 | i don't think homer-like "ban the bear" statements hold any truth.. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PitaGore a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 6:15pm |
| Coolness: 471925 | Unfortunatly, he was quite right with the Russian thang...
Its still messing with the elements .,... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ontheroadagain a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 6:56pm |
| Coolness: 54455 | I bet that there are less people that end up with permanent mental problems by taking 1 mdma than there are who just snap from work/family/money stress...
i can say that due to slip and falls that result in brain damage "taking a shower is like playing russian roulette with your brain" i don't think mixing drugs is very wise,kids taking drugs is very wise or abusing drugs is very wise but taking an mdma can be a very positive experience.... yes...technically what he said is true, but so is life.... "being alive greatly increases the risk of death" |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 6:56pm |
| Coolness: 201345 | E is a good way to find out if you have any genetic vulnerabilities to certain psychological disorders. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» clown a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 9:13pm |
 Coolness: 221885 | it really depends on how your body reacts to the drug.. some people experiance things they never thoguht existed after taking mdma... for some, it has made them an overall less shy person.
i agree that for some others, it's left them like a vedgetable.. but it takes quite a bit to put your internal driver to sleep for good.. its an experiance like any other... luckely i don't take any all that often anymore. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 9:26pm |
| Coolness: 201345 | not really, if someone is genetically vulnerable to a disorder then one pill could be enough to bring it out. Generally those people might have developed the disorder anyway but there isn't a huge amount of research done on it.
Generally though anyone who suffers from a disorder already such as an anxiety disorder, depression, ect.. should NEVER take E. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» clown a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 9:31pm |
| Coolness: 221885 | they should't really intake beer either.. to the point where they get smashed and start breaking things.. hehe |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» soyfunk a répondu le Wed 12 Mar, 2003 @ 9:34pm |
 Coolness: 126890 | i gotto parties and always see a alot of people under the influence
good friends, friend of friends, strangers i cant help worrying cause as much as there are other inevitables in the word could kill you at any instant it still looks like a gamble to me how should i know right? i never tried anything i really don't need to maybe i'm missing out maybe it could improve the way i see life in this incarnation life is short, yes i understand that everyone has their reasons i admit sometimes i might be judgmental about "drugs" anyways that was just my two cents carry on |
Preloading (for Mdma)
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