Say No To Intervention In Lybia
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 1:08pm |
 Coolness: 145240 | another stupid war,
no nato intervention. tell your MP, no canadian blood for foreign interventionism... |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» Kishmay_Pinas replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 1:09pm |
 Coolness: 103295 | Yeah let the crazy fucker kill as many as possible and let the survivors figure it out |
| I'm feeling ez sessions monday wut! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 1:13pm |
| Coolness: 145240 | so your for war is what you are saying, your for us (the west) going to another muslim country and ditching some dictator and toppling the government, doesn't this story sound familiar, hasn't it ended badly before... |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Kire replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 2:31pm |
 Coolness: 66740 | dude with whats going on over there i'm glad someones finally fuckin doing something. they're getting really fucked up over there and to say we don't want to lose some of our own but its okay to let them deal with it themselves ? civilians vs the army ? check out whats not being posted on the news to see how they're REALLY doing. its disgusting man. it's like that in many other parts of the world but at least these guys are getting some help.
unfortunately they're on cease fire yet theres still reports of fighting. figures no one realy ever wants war but something has to be done about him imho |
| I'm feeling black light !!!! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Kishmay_Pinas replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 6:31pm |
| Coolness: 103295 | Who cares if it's a Muslim country. Some maniac is slaughtering civilians. |
| I'm feeling ez sessions monday wut! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 9:31pm |
| Coolness: 145240 | don't we have enough wars already...
besides the whole middle east wave of democracy thing is malarky, look at egypt, do they have democracy, no the they have a military gov. This whole thing is absurd are you telling me if we in canada get a couple hundred thousand people together and camp out infront of the parliment we can boot Harper. This is what this amounts to and it's absurd. It's called 'ochlocracy' or rule of the mob... we shouldn't be supporting any new wars... but like cindy sheehan said in 2009 "we don't have an antiwar movement in this country [america] we have an anti republican war movement" |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Gamos replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 9:57pm |
 Coolness: 93535 | Its a very tough decision...
I mean, are these countries even ready for democracies? A sucessful democracy has many prerequisites including stong: educational institutions judicial institutions military institutions law and order institutions political insitituions economic instiutions informational instiutions financial instituions A lot of these countries, quite frankly, dont have these institutions in place...so a democracy would be a combination of ineffective, corrupt and fragile. So in these scenarios, its a very poor system. I mean look at Pakistan...Mussharaff everyone thought was terrible, but he turned out better than whatever they have now. A lot of african countries beacame shitholes after independance, and south american countries have frequent bouts of populism. And so you have alternative forms of government that are, perhaps, better for the time being. Qatar, AUE, Kuwait, Jordan. The issue is that in countries like Lybia and Egypt, the leaders were clearly more preoccupied with staying in power and accumulating wealth than improving the institutions of the country and well being of the populice... But then its quite a connundrum - is a democracy going to be better than the leader in question? Often times the answer is an obvious yes - for example in the case of North Korea. But in the case of countries like Egypt and Lybia where there are very strong islamic extremeism and anti-western governments, the question becomes murky. Sometimes the devil you know, is better than the devil you don't. If not a democracy....then what? And whatever it is, do western countries have the right to impose it on the citizens of another country? And thats the issue. Thats the real issue. Its very simplisitc in a way, but theres never a clear answer. |
| I'm feeling a overhang right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 10:44pm |
| Coolness: 145240 | it's another illegal war, no declartion from the US congress for the no fly zone...
this is to be opposed... |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DynV replied on Fri Mar 18, 2011 @ 11:37pm |
 Coolness: 108845 | friend of US ask for a favor then get it. ...or did US friend really want to ask for it? it's easy to hise yourself behind a puppet.
unless the propaganda machine (media) start to veer to something else than what most in power want (haha!). it's most likely that all your lobbying effort will end up in the trash can of your representative. |
| I'm feeling <3 sexi_babe_69 right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 12:49am |
 Coolness: 166585 | Egypt rose, and toppled their Government, the military took the poeple's side eventually, and I think it all kinda worked. I believe the asshole they got rid of chilling on the outskirts of Montreal. Bravo.
Lybia was probably inspired by this, but their dictator has a better control of his military, probably 'cause he's an even bigger asshole than the Egypt guy, and the result is totally different, and most likely unexpected. Now, well, the citizens are getting massacred ... Not sure who should intervene, but fuck, someone has to help these people. |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:08am |
| Coolness: 145240 | i'm sorry but as a french economist recently opined "the whole narrative of human rights in the west is discredited because it is applied with such blantant double standard and hypocracy" |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Kire replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:10am |
| Coolness: 66740 | Originally Posted By BASDINI
are you telling me if we in canada get a couple hundred thousand people together and camp out infront of the parliment we can boot Harper. iunno is harper an emotionless dictator that has no problem with slaughtering those who oppose him ? what if we were in their situation ? and everyone else said " fuck that i'm not starting another war theres too many why risk our soldiers" oh no problem we don't need them, our molotovs will destroy that tank, jet fighters ? pfft they're nothing to my 9mm. Update » Kire wrote on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:16am you have young people fighting for their future with fire arms they've never used before in their life, these people want change dude i can't agree at all with what you're saying, if this was another 'liberate iraq' bs i'd agree. but these people genuinely (sp?) want change they're paying with their blood while we complain and pay pay taxes. but hey we're not being killed off for our opinions are we ? |
| I'm feeling black light !!!! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:13am |
| Coolness: 166585 | Originally Posted By BASDINI
i'm sorry but as a french economist recently opined "the whole narrative of human rights in the west is discredited because it is applied with such blatant double standard and hypocricy" haha - Agreed ... I still think someone should help theses people, I'm not saying it should come from the West. I mean fuck, is the whole world gonna just sit around and watch a shit-ton of innocents get slaughtered? This isn't Human Rights, it's Life or Death. |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Kire replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:19am |
| Coolness: 66740 | thats exactly why the world shouldn't turn a blind eye to them, everyone has seen how long this has been going on, how many lives has it taken for someone to actually take action ? even then there is still nothing being done and people are still dying |
| I'm feeling black light !!!! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:25am |
| Coolness: 166585 | The only people who took action were THE PEOPLE. Unfortunately, they aren't well enough equipped :/ |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DynV replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:33am |
| Coolness: 108845 | don't go crying to your representative because they won't ask their friend, holding a telephone in one hand and controlling its puppet in the other hand, to have the puppet stop what it's doing. |
| I'm feeling <3 sexi_babe_69 right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 1:37am |
| Coolness: 166585 | Originally Posted By DYNV
don't go crying to your representative because they won't ask their friend, holding a telephone in one hand and controlling its puppet in the other hand, to have the puppet stop what it's doing. which amounts to: In Lybia, the puppet controls you ... just another black eye on humanity's unrecognisably bruised face. |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Kire replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 2:53am |
| Coolness: 66740 | Originally Posted By ZOMBIENATHAN
which amounts to: In Lybia, the puppet controls you ... just another black eye on humanity's unrecognisably bruised face. +1 |
| I'm feeling black light !!!! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MattWood replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 4:03am |
 Coolness: 39420 | At this point in time, the only military action that has been discussed is using fighter planes to establish a no fly zone over Libya, so that Ghadaffi can't BOMB HIS OWN FUCKING PEOPLE. Officials from the US have directly stated that they will not deploy troops on the ground.
I've started seeing a lot of this "DON'T INTERVENE!!!" screaming and hand wringing, mostly from nut jobs who spew off about zionist conspiracies and new world order secret societies and all that crap. I've even seen Ghaddaffi fan pages....fucking twisted. This guy has unleashed private security forces and militias from North Africa on his own people because they protested against his dictatorial rule, and people are heralding him as a hero just because he's in opposition to "western imperialists". But frankly, those western imperialists happen to be in opposition to "murdering-your-people-because-they-voice-popular-dissent", and so do I. If canadian forces can help keep even 100 civilians from getting bombed then fucking rights. Update » MattWood wrote on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 4:35am From the Human Rights Watch website:
[ www.hrw.org ] The Libyan government has prevented journalists and human rights researchers from gaining access to areas of fighting and places of detention, thereby preventing independent monitoring of government conduct. "Gaddafi would not impose an information blockade if his forces were treating people well," Whitson said. "Libyan security forces' possible capture of Benghazi heightens concerns of more abuses as we've seen elsewhere in Libya, including killings and disappearances," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. “For the second time in a month, the Security Council has defied expectations and risen to the occasion by making clear that all options are on the table to prevent mass atrocities in Libya. We hope that from now on, the Security Council will consistently live up to its duty to protect civilians in Libya and beyond.” Update » MattWood wrote on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 4:48am Here is a very good editorial from an Al-Jazeera political analyst...
While I still maintain my point of view on the situation, this article makes me understand a little of where the other side is coming from in this discussion...notably regarding the history of strategic wars and regime changes in the region. Read it: [ english.aljazeera.net ] Now that the international community has given the Libyan revolutionaries a protective umbrella that includes a full range of military and humanitarian actions, it is incumbent upon the Libyan opposition to mobilise for mass action in every city and town both in the east and west and challenge the regime's militias. The most effective and constructive way to use the newly mandated use of force by the UN Security Council is to use as little of it, as accurately, as selectively as possible, and ideally not use it at all. It is still possible for the threat of the use of international force, coupled with domestic popular pressure, to bring down the weakened regime. Update » MattWood wrote on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 4:49am And if you TLDR me then fuck you, I put a lot of effort into formatting this wall of text and selecting quotes so that it reads well. |
| I'm feeling focused right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Sat Mar 19, 2011 @ 5:25am |
| Coolness: 145240 | there is no difference between what they want to do in libya and what happened in iraq in 2003, don't kid yourself, if iraq was wrong then so is this, let's not split hairs we are talking about military intervention in a sovereign state. What do you think is going to happen if those jet fighters come under fire while they are doing their patrols, they are going to shoot back and that means going after the air defense and radar stations We are talking about war.
just because it's liberal and not a conservative doing it doesn't really change anything, just because the motives are a little different (not really if you look at it carefully, supposedly sadam was toppled because he was a brutal dictator) doesn't make it right. If bush's wars are wrong so are obama's when judged by the same standard. |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
Say No To Intervention In Lybia
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