What Should I Use ?
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deyaros replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 4:12am |
 Coolness: 47050 | I want to by a want to buy usb/midi controlers. But I'm not 100% sure that this is want I want
[ www.behringer.com ] + [ www.behringer.com ] Right now I have this : [ www.m-audio.com ] and this : [ www.m-audio.com ] And I'm about to buy : [ www.m-audio.com ] or this [ www.m-audio.com ] ( not sure for that too ) Any suggestion ??! |
| I'm feeling zombifier right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 4:31am |
 Coolness: 509605 | why do you want a midi keyboard in the first place? |
| I'm feeling psyched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deadfunk replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 11:23am |
 Coolness: 153050 | true. i dont use any midi controller, since i dont do lives, neither play piano |
| I'm feeling promiscuous right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ApR1zM replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 11:44am |
 Coolness: 164845 | yeah ptete mais la musique sa se feel ben quand tu fais laction de la jouer! c personnel la c pas necessairement pour faire un show ou du live la ! desfois aussi c nice sa donne un human touch a certain effect au lieu dutiliser lautomation equivalente aussi pour les controlleurs de drums c vraiment lfun pis encore la sa donne un human swing au beat :D |
| I'm feeling bout des 500 cibles right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Deyaros replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 2:45pm |
| Coolness: 47050 | Et bien parce que je sers du clavier pour jouer, des slider pour mon sons et cue. et mes knobs pour mes effet.
Je fais presque tout avec reason. Je suis capable de faire des performance live seulement qu'avec reason...mais j'ai pas assez de controle pour ce que je veux faire. Et je suis entrain d'apprendre le piano ( j'ai deja jouer du xylo, marimba, vibraphone etc...j'adore jouer de la percussion ) mais jouer avec les doigts c'est pas parreil...et j'aime le feel. J'approuve ce que ApRIzM a dis. La raison pour la quel je me suis acheter l'Xponant c'est pour apprendre a mixer et aussi pouvoir mixer mes propre toune une fois que je suis satisfait de ce que je fais... ( ce qui risque de prendre du temps dans mon cas ) Et d'un autre coter si je fais pas de show avec mon gear et que j'en fais seulement qu'avec mon xponent ou avec de vrai table c'est vrai que les clavier me serviront a rien. Mais vu que je veux faire les deux....donc la dynamique de la chose change pour moi. Mais bon, pour les controleurs ( je parle pas des clavier ) est-ce que ceux-ci valent la-peine. Or not ? Or should I use something else ? |
| I'm feeling zombifier right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 4:32pm |
| Coolness: 509605 | Originally Posted By APR1ZM
yeah ptete mais la musique sa se feel ben quand tu fais laction de la jouer! c personnel la c pas necessairement pour faire un show ou du live la ! desfois aussi c nice sa donne un human touch a certain effect au lieu dutiliser lautomation equivalente aussi pour les controlleurs de drums c vraiment lfun pis encore la sa donne un human swing au beat :D by human touch, do you mean 'imperfections'? :P |
| I'm feeling psyched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» clown replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 6:12pm |
 Coolness: 221810 | Originally Posted By ALIENZED
Originally Posted By ApR1zM
yeah ptete mais la musique sa se feel ben quand tu fais laction de la jouer! c personnel la c pas necessairement pour faire un show ou du live la ! desfois aussi c nice sa donne un human touch a certain effect au lieu dutiliser lautomation equivalente aussi pour les controlleurs de drums c vraiment lfun pis encore la sa donne un human swing au beat :D by human touch, do you mean 'imperfections'? :P mike, what are you saying bro ?? lots of people produce with midi controllers. it is alot more useful when trying to find a new pattern !! :) |
| I'm feeling tiesto ??? :p right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» James replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 7:40pm |
 Coolness: 37120 | I do almost everything exclusively "by hand". |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Thu Jul 26, 2007 @ 9:28pm |
| Coolness: 509605 | Originally Posted By CLOWN
Originally Posted By AlienZeD
Originally Posted By ApR1zM
yeah ptete mais la musique sa se feel ben quand tu fais laction de la jouer! c personnel la c pas necessairement pour faire un show ou du live la ! desfois aussi c nice sa donne un human touch a certain effect au lieu dutiliser lautomation equivalente aussi pour les controlleurs de drums c vraiment lfun pis encore la sa donne un human swing au beat :D by human touch, do you mean 'imperfections'? :P mike, what are you saying bro ?? lots of people produce with midi controllers. it is alot more useful when trying to find a new pattern !! :) I am definitely not saying that midi controllers create imperfections... humans though are imperfect, sequencers exist because no one wants a kick hitting at a slightly different rate every single time, electronica (95% of the time) is pattern oriented and those patterns sound best when they are 'perfect'; no human will ever be perfect at hitting the right note at the right time, it's simply common sense to let the software/hardware do it for us. The melodies are of course completely up to us, and I am the perfect example that you do not need a midi controller to achieve original or 'new' patterns. besides my computer's keyboard is a great 1 octave midi controller for testing out patterns, z and x shift the octave up and down. but as far as finding new patterns, I resort to the creativity inside my mind as opposed to randomly hitting notes and hoping it will sound good... I have absolutely nothing against midi controllers but everyone knows that AFTER you record your midi pattern, you justify it to a bar fraction to make it perfect(so why not learn to draw properly and creatively in the first place) hardware is great but can't do anything software can't anymore, most hardware these days virtualizes everything anyway, so all you have is an expensive console running expensive software. But that's just my opinion, everyone has their own methods and opinions and no one will ever agree 100% because there is no wrong or right answer. To make things even more complicated, even the end result will never be judged fairly because everyone is biased to their own taste. I personally think that a good production environment and the knowledge to use it properly is ten times more important than having a midi controller. I know quite a few producers who bought one and then only used it to feel less bad about spending money on it, and then tried to sell it to me. anyway, (to the orininal poster) get something cheap, I doubt you'll use it for very long IMHO |
| I'm feeling psyched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» madforbrad replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 12:59am |
 Coolness: 44595 | the whole reason why people pay musicians alot of money to play on albums is because those human imperfections make an album actually sound good and groove rather than the quantised bullshit electro garbage you make. You don't have a keyboard because your production involves such little emphasis on music that i suppose you do'nt need one. Fair game , but don't say that someone won't have use for it. Unless you plan to make shitty rave music the rest of your life. Even so ,most dance producers will actually play things so that it isn't perfect and detract from the negative qualities of having everything " perfect " . |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 5:13am |
| Coolness: 509605 | Originally Posted By MADFORBRAD
the whole reason why people pay musicians alot of money to play on albums is because those human imperfections make an album actually sound good and groove rather than the quantised bullshit electro garbage you make. You don't have a keyboard because your production involves such little emphasis on music that i suppose you do'nt need one. Fair game , but don't say that someone won't have use for it. Unless you plan to make shitty rave music the rest of your life. Even so ,most dance producers will actually play things so that it isn't perfect and detract from the negative qualities of having everything " perfect " . that's just retarded, most musicians don't get paid a lot of money... and especially not to make music that sounds imperfect. Who the fuck would produce something imperfect on purpose? I don't make electro and frankly you can save your personal jabs for someone who cares. Who the fuck are you to judge me anyway? Your comment had nothing to do with midi controllers at all, so obviously you've missed the point of this thread. I was simply stating my opinion within its context. IMPERFECTIONS DO NOT MAKE MUSIC SOUND BETTER. |
| I'm feeling psyched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» James replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 6:14am |
| Coolness: 37120 | Zed
YOU are retarded. You have obviously no formal education in music and madforbrad is absolutely right about your "music" involving so little music. Right now you have your head so far up your own ass that all you hear is shit. YOU have completely missed HIS point which WAS about midi controllers and frankly you're just making a even bigger ass of yourself by replying the same load of crap again. Imperfections DO make music sound better, by any measure. If it wasn't the case, then we'd have stopped making instruments a long time ago, and the electronic ones wouldn't try so hard at emulating all those little imperfections. and I am the perfect example that you do not need a midi controller to achieve original or 'new' patterns.
No you are a perfect example of the fucking rebirth generation. Bunch of kids who can't tell you what's in a 7th or what's the relative minor to an E major. You just happened to own a PC right as the world of computer-based production was changing. Click lick here click click there look ma' i'm a fucking superstar! no hands! Don't even begin to start to maybe one day contemplate the possible far-off aspect that what you make can be considered by any stretch of the imagination something even remotely related to music. YOU are hitting notes at random on your PC keyboard trying to come up with the 120912091th version of a duo-tone ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta, while musicians use their midi controllers to find polyphonic melodies, based on principles that still make sense even dissected to their smallest mathematical component and not just "hmmm yo.. plink plink sorta sounds good with plonk plonk" And so, to the original poster: DON'T get something cheap, learn music the right way and you won't end up as big as ass as Zed :) Update » James wrote on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 6:33am @ OP:
Btw... it ain't a big controller by any means... but I just got myself an Ozonic and so far it rocks my fucking world. Two more octaves would've been great for actual playing, but since I was aiming at portability/live sessions 37 keys was a good compromise. Its got the usual M-Audio plasticky feel on knobs/faders although I think they'll hold for the duration, and the keys themselves are superb full sized keys with excellent synth-action. Plus, depending on your needs it can eliminate the need for some gear. Because of it I can sell my 1010 card and my 24 track console...no small feat. Next stop for me is a keystation 88 somewhere down the road so I can let loose and actually PLAY :) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 7:26am |
| Coolness: 509605 | You do not know me and therefore have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to my production and my life. Everything you wrote was nothing more than one big negative assumption.
Shame on you for your attitude and your unprofessional demeanor. I have the right to voice my opinion just like anyone else in here and I did my best to remain civil after being personally insulted. You can believe whatever you want buddy but you've just lost all your credibility. it's no skin off my back... |
| I'm feeling psyched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» madforbrad replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 10:37am |
| Coolness: 44595 | i don't want to argue with you because you are way out of your league and you have absolutely no insight as far as music outside of the small electronic subgenre you make. The reason you don't see value in a keyboard is because you make music that relies on about 90% sound design and maybr 5% music. You might not need a keyboard but to assume that someone else won't without even taking the time to find out what sort of music they make is absolutely assinine.
If you are serious about music and want to expand your harmonic language to something a little more interesting than 2 note chords , get a keybaord. Every big producer in every genre of music including dance uses a keyboard and alot of the good ones actually play patterns to make things less robotic and stale. Imperfections in music are what makes music great. The reason why something actually grooves is due to imperfections in timing that add a certain pull or push to anchored beats. You could spend hours moving notes to achieve it or just play the god damn thing and save yourself hours. I suggest you buy something with full 88 keys and full weighted because learning to play piano and the theory behind it is something every producer should do and it will be a treat to actually use rather than some really small 8 note keyboard. Update » madforbrad wrote on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 10:42am you know i should of just said who isn't using a keyboard instead of who does
the only producers that don't use a keyboard are amateur dance producers. Everyone else does. Spending 500$ on such a valuable tool is a no brainer for me. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 1:17pm |
| Coolness: 509605 | Originally Posted By MADFORBRAD
Every big producer in every genre of music including dance uses a keyboard and alot of the good ones actually play patterns to make things less robotic and stale. Imperfections in music are what makes music great. The reason why something actually grooves is due to imperfections in timing that add a certain pull or push to anchored beats. hahahahahahhahahahaq, oh ok I thought you were serious for a second there... good one |
| I'm feeling psyched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» madforbrad replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 1:37pm |
| Coolness: 44595 | i do'nt expect you to understand . Try making a type of music that doesn't market itself to music morons and you might understand what i'm talking about. Like James said , you are part of the rebirth generation and i don't expect you to ever get it. So lets just end it here. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» James replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 1:38pm |
| Coolness: 37120 | Oh so you can come 'round saying the way most people make music is retarded and that you have been enlightened by some melody god that infused you with the gift of harmony, pretending others randomly tap keys until some sort of progression comes up but yet we can't express the opposite? Right. YOU are just expressing a valid opinion while we're venting gas right?
Yes, face the facts, the music you do is 80% patch design, 15% rhytmic structure and about 5% actual harmony. And again, you've just sank even lower down you own ass by laughing at what madforbrad said. You've just, in a single inane replied, contested the existence of shuffle, one of the few 'human' tricks to have been correctly implemented and overtly abused in electronic music. As for not knowing you.. I don't see how this can even be brought into the equation except if you feel you've stepped into something a whole damn lot larger than you and you're running out of excuses. Next step is "your mom" I guess? I don't know Trent Reznor but I can assure you he uses keyboards. Do yourself, and everyone else, a favor and learn to use this: [ chordmaps.com ] |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» madforbrad replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 1:42pm |
| Coolness: 44595 | [ www3.telus.net ]
do you think for a second that this would fit in any sort of quantization grid. You aren't a musician so just shut up already. You have absolutely no clue what i am talking about. Update » madforbrad wrote on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 1:44pm the only music that is perfectly quantized is amateur dance music. PRo dance producers will disaplace certain beats by micro seconds to make a beat push more. Rap music does the same. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 1:57pm |
| Coolness: 509605 | I laughed because imperfect is defined as "not perfect; defective or inadequate;"
and that DOES NOT MAKE FOR GOOD MUSIC. It doesn't take a genius to understand that. ya crazy dutch bastard... Moreover, if it's groovy, it's not imperfect because that would mean it's flawed and then BY DEFINITION IS NOT GOOD. For fuck's sake, before lecturing me on music theory, learn to read. Besides, you've completely misunderstood me if you thought for a second I said the way most people make music is retarded, read my fucking post again and put an ounce of brain waves into understanding it before telling me what I said. "that's just retarded, most musicians don't get paid a lot of money... and especially not to make music that sounds imperfect. Who the fuck would produce something imperfect on purpose?" I stand by that. And for those of you who don't understand ENGLISH, I'll reiterate all my points in quick concise form. -I have nothing against midi controllers or keyboards, I use mine often to test out patches and melodic sequences. Clear?! -Purposefully making FLAWED (imperfect) music IS retarded, what are you? DJ Milas!? -After 10 years of producing, albeit amateurishly, I can honestly say that in MY opinion a full sized midi keyboard is NOT necessary. Just my two cents, get over it. -Most of what both of you said is right, and if you actually bothered to read my posts, you'll see that I did not contest the vast majority of what you said, simply, because I already know it to be true. Clear?! -I have NOT resorted to personal insults as you and madforbrad have, I don't know either of you well enough to point out your character flaws, nor do I intend to. [ rave.ca ] Listen to that and tell me there's no harmony, no melody work. Or don't, I don't give a fuck, but if you're going to claim I have no music in my music, maybe you should listen to it first. I will 'end' it here because we're vastly off topic and you guys seem more interested in arguing about semantics than talking about midi controllers. |
| I'm feeling psyched right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» James replied on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 2:51pm |
| Coolness: 37120 | -Purposefully making FLAWED (imperfect) music IS retarded, what are you? DJ Milas!?
If you've been "producing" (in my world we just say "i been making music", guess that explains a lot) for 10 years I'm guess you're at least 20, which means that you've seen and heard the production methods finally evolve in the late 90s after more than a decade of stagnation. Where were you when Reznor muffled his vocals like he was singing from the next room? Where were you when Tori Amos had a custom piano made so the microphones would pick more hammer than string? Imperfections are not flaws. And if you think putting in, quite on purpose, imperfections in a track is retarded you have no say in any discussions on music from now until the planet implodes. You, me and everyone else are just piles of imperfections. If everything was "perfect", you'd be a Nazi and it'd be 1943 right now. Don't worry, you will grow out of it someday... its just a passing phase. Update » James wrote on Fri Jul 27, 2007 @ 2:59pm listing to your "harmony"....
You kidding me? No really.. is it a joke? There's not even a chord in there. You simply use a root note and play half a pentatonic over it! lol! Hint: chords start at three notes... two notes is called AN INTERVAL and it's what we use to teach kids music. |
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