Giving Away Our Songs Or Not?
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nodeletesucks replied on Sun Jan 24, 2010 @ 11:29pm |
 Coolness: 56040 | On BOA, Dave the drummer talks about an interesting subject : giving our music freely?
"I mean f^ck it, If the sales are crap anyway, why not just give it away ?
at least more people will hear it and maybe more gigs will come out of it." "I think nowadays it is more performance orientated than say putting out CD's. The money to sustain what you do would come from shows that you put on (audio/visual)
If you want to make money from music, you have to be clever about it. Techno, whether we like it or not is an underground thing that will never enjoy any real commercial success. Im not saying make minimal- make other things, work on concepts- marketing stratergies. thats what business is- advertising and marketing and being bloody clever." Personally, I'm in a phase where I got my EP ready and I'm posting CDs to labels that I like (and that has a little link between the type of music of my tracks). I would like to see your thoughts on the subject (since some of you guys have released stuff on labels and everything) |
| I'm feeling horny right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AlienZeD replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:00am |
 Coolness: 509580 | I totally agree with what that guy says. It's hilarious too cause some 'house' producer asked me what he could do to get 'out there' and I said pretty much the exact same thing mr Dave said.
When will people learn that for the most part, people will only pay you to do something you don't want to do. |
| I'm feeling good in the hood right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:13am |
 Coolness: 685610 | I'm pretty much in agreement with that.. granted, I've not got anything that's to a level where I think it could get released, but I'm also not interested in making money from the music I make.. To me, music, be it electronic or "real" (rock/metal/"real" instruments/band) is/should be something that you do because you love it and have something to say or contribute...
having skills and wanting to make money is not a good reason to make music imo.. That's when you end up with bullshit like "lady" gaga, backstreet boys, britney, etc.., or to use something electronic as an example, Clipz or TC; I personally think people should make music because they're passionate about it.. If your tunes happen to sell and make you money, that's a bonus! You shouldn't piss on people for liking your stuff.. Performances is the way to go.. and these days it's easier than ever.. Everyone is moving to CDs.. all a producer has to do is load up all the tunes he gets into Ableton and set them to the same BPM (a lot of big-name DnB DJs do this) or take it a step further and do like 5 minute "mega-mix" mashups of like 4 tunes and mix those mini-mixes together... or split/chop shit up and throw it into Ableton and do a semi-live DJ set where, again, you can drop and tease 5 tunes a minute and throw acapellas over top, do live mashups, etc.. Either way, unless you're running your own label and putting out all your own releases, you're barely seeing any of the money that your sales are generating; it's always been this way and it will always be this way.. the 1-2$ that producers are making off of MP3 sales now is the same 1-2$ they were making after the label has taken their percentage, covered the pressing costs, the promotion costs, the artwork, the distribution, etc.. People need to evolve, because technology and expectations have.. Sure people of the 'our' generation grew up buying tapes, CDs and records, so we're more likely to buy tunes/albums, but kids from the "next" generation (the teens) grew up in a time of Napster and Soulseek and Bit Torrent, where you can get anything for free with a few clicks.. It's stupid to think they're going to start paying for something they never did; it's a totally alien concept to them.. Might as well start charging money for the oxygen we breathe, it would be as much of a "shock" to everyone as it is for the new generation of listeners to be expected to pay for something that's freely available. Performances are absolutely the way to go.. Like, for example, Snork is currently in the process of putting together something really sick to go with his live sets; using Max/MSP (I think that's what it's called?) to have visuals that are generated/affected by the music.. so his live sets won't only be audio, but also visuals 100% tailored/in sync to his music/effects.. |
| I'm feeling like a drama magnet right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nodeletesucks replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:37am |
| Coolness: 56040 | Originally Posted By SCREWHEAD
Performances are absolutely the way to go.. Like, for example, Snork is currently in the process of putting together something really sick to go with his live sets; using Max/MSP (I think that's what it's called?) to have visuals that are generated/affected by the music.. so his live sets won't only be audio, but also visuals 100% tailored/in sync to his music/effects.. The program is "Jitter"(which is the max/msp version for video). (I'm currently working on a project (with a team) at my university to do a max/msp program to take over the time-coded records from Serato/Traktor and use them to do some Video-Juggling.) I think the concept of high level performance for gigs is great. I got nothing agains't this. But to get these ideas done, you need to get yourself get known a bit (to get booked) and nowadays, since everyone can do music, it's hard to stand out of the mass. I mean, the whole label thing is that if you're good enough, you can actually release something and that's some publicity (like some guys would only look for a specific label and not for the names, this way, if you're releasing on THIS specific label, they'll listen what you do). It's some sort of a filter. Now without the concept of this filter, if you actually have skills and want people to get your songs heard, you might just get not listened at all because you're just a name in a sea of many names (that some are bullshit). (which comes to publicity!) So yeah that brings back the question of which comes first : "the Egg or the chicken" |
| I'm feeling horny right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MelooDie replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:53am |
 Coolness: 248445 | I would say, Give some tracks to let people know you and after that sell them.Give some,but not all the time.A lot of artist to it on their myspace ,by exemple.And everyone love freebies! |
| I'm feeling intense! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:54am |
| Coolness: 685610 | Originally Posted By A_X_CELL
I think the concept of high level performance for gigs is great. I got nothing agains't this. But to get these ideas done, you need to get yourself get known a bit (to get booked) and nowadays, since everyone can do music, it's hard to stand out of the mass. I mean, the whole label thing is that if you're good enough, you can actually release something and that's some publicity (like some guys would only look for a specific label and not for the names, this way, if you're releasing on THIS specific label, they'll listen what you do). It's some sort of a filter. Now without the concept of this filter, if you actually have skills and want people to get your songs heard, you might just get not listened at all because you're just a name in a sea of many names (that some are bullshit). (which comes to publicity!) So yeah that brings back the question of which comes first : "the Egg or the chicken" That's why you upload mixes/sets, a few free tunes, a video/music combo if you're doing like what Snork is gonna be doing.. Do a weekly radio show on some internet station, there's no abundance of those.. There are tons of free net-labels that are fairly established.. DnB wise there's Zardonic Records that's had a release or two of Intoccabile, there's Black Hoe that's a free label that also has a "charge" sub-label for stuff that they feel they could take the extra step and sell.. You can always start your own net-label, be it free or pay.. start with a few free releases, post them up on every electronic music board you can find.. people LOVE free shit! Get a few other unknown producers that are making similar work that's quality together and put out their tunes also.. everyone helps everyone else out.. To use the Zardonic example, he made a bunch of DnB bootleg remixes of metal tunes, started a free netlabel for mostly skullstep DnB, then one of the free bootlegs he put up (NIN - The Hand that Feeds) got played out by Pendulum and John B, then Dieselboy, then he got a release on AK1200's new label, Mindsaw started putting out some of his tunes on 12", and he just recently did a collaboration with Counterstrike that's coming out on their label.. A dozen metal bootlegs and promoting his tunes and tunes of other similar-styled producers all for free ended up with him skyrocketing.. He never sent tunes out to other labels, he just put out a ton of stuff for free and made sure the output was quality, started his own 100%-free label and brought together like-minded artists that would obviously also promote his label.. Now not only him but a lot of them that started on Zardonic Recs. are getting deals for records on "real" labels putting out records.. He didn't do any "shopping", he gave tunes away, got friends together, gave their tunes away under a collective, and some of the biggest-name DnB DJs picked up his stuff on their own without him sending it to them by simple "word of mouth" |
| I'm feeling like a drama magnet right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Omni replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 10:32am |
 Coolness: 87595 | This is an interesting topic. I am myself both producing music that I am releasing on various labels and I am also running Tasty Bytes Records, a digitally distributed label.
My goal with my tracks (and with the label), has never been to make a big profit out of it. I'm more about trying to find the best way to get my music (and the artists on our label) heard by a lot of people and giving everyone the exposure that they should get. I also believe that the best way to live making music these days is more about playing live than about selling tracks, but both should somehow go hand in hand. Putting out music should help you make a name for yourself and help your music get to the right places. With my music and with the label, I have tried a certain number of strategies to ensure maximum exposure, including giving away music. A lot of people seem to think that giving away their music for free means that everyone will rush out and get it. Giving away your music for free, while it can help you get some exposure, is not necessarily going to help you that much. While I am all about digital distribution (and even free music sharing to some extent), I can also see one of the downsides of it today. Music today, being either dirt-cheap or freely available (through legal or illegal means), has become a disposable commodity. Today, the "life expectancy" of a good electronic dance music track has dropped significantly from a few months to a few weeks. I think that the price of music, while not being the only factor, has something to do with it. Back when I was playing only vynil, paying 15$ for a track + B-side, that track could remain in my crate for months and sometimes one or two years if I really thought it was awesome. These days, with the same budget and the quantity of music coming out, a good track is often only played a few weeks. There are a lot of aspects to "this problem", but I believe that putting a price on your music, for some reason, seems to give it more value to a lot of people. That is unfortunately the way things are today. Still, I will continue to give away some things for free, but maybe giving all your music away for free is not THE solution to give your music the exposure and the "life" that it diserves. |
| I'm feeling yay right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nodeletesucks replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 11:08am |
| Coolness: 56040 | What about the "radiohead/in rainbows" option? Giving your music for free but with a donation attached. This way, people that actually wants to pay money for your work could! |
| I'm feeling horny right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 11:15am |
| Coolness: 685610 | Originally Posted By A_X_CELL
What about the "radiohead/in rainbows" option? Giving your music for free but with a donation attached. This way, people that actually wants to pay money for your work could! That's another possibility! Or something like what NIN did with Ghosts; 4-disk album, disk 1 up for free, if you like it, it's $5 to download the rest in any format/quality you want (so if you want 192 or 320 mp3, or a 24/96 FLAC, it's the same amount).. or you can pay 20$ to get a physical copy with cover art and a booklet (as well as the download)... 50-100$ gets you the CD, vinyl, the download (so you can listen while waiting for the shipping) and a t-shirt.. 400$ gets you all of the above along with a backstage pass to a concert and a day hanging out with the artist (limited quantities available) Obviously you need to be fairly established to go as far as the last option and have people interested enough in it, but everything up to that is more than possible.. Make it worthwhile for people to want to buy your music and they will! |
| I'm feeling like a drama magnet right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Omni replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:26pm |
| Coolness: 87595 | Those are all good possibilities. However, I think this is the kind of thing that will work best for established artists with a dedicated fanbase, which is the case for both Radiohead and NIN. This probably won't do much for relatively unknown up-and-comers. Word of a "free" Radiohead or NIN album spreads like wildfire in all kinds of media. Word of a free Omni or {insert relatively unknown producer here} album probably won't get that much exposure. |
| I'm feeling yay right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nodeletesucks replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:43pm |
| Coolness: 56040 | Ok then I have a specific question.
We all talk about NIN/Radiohead/Electro/DnB right now for this subject. Let's get to the point : this is pretty much easier to get your music known by any means (free or not). Let's take my case. I'm making some Experimental 135bpm-ish Techno. The only labels I could release on are : Naked Lunch AND Impact Mechanics since it's pretty much the sound that looks like mine. Unfortunately, I get no news for them since... I'm a no-name into this ocean of no-name who postulates for the label. So yeah, what to do now? 1. Give away my music for free but at the same time, struggling on publicity since the internet is fulfilled by music made in an hour by a 12 years old boy (been there, done that) or else, not getting that much of attention like Omni said. 2. Keep sending demos of my EP to labels... but which ones? Your opinion on this one? |
| I'm feeling horny right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 12:56pm |
| Coolness: 685610 | Originally Posted By A_X_CELL
Let's take my case. I'm making some Experimental 135bpm-ish Techno. The only labels I could release on are : Naked Lunch AND Impact Mechanics since it's pretty much the sound that looks like mine. Unfortunately, I get no news for them since... I'm a no-name into this ocean of no-name who postulates for the label. So yeah, what to do now? 1. Give away my music for free but at the same time, struggling on publicity since the internet is fulfilled by music made in an hour by a 12 years old boy (been there, done that) or else, not getting that much of attention like Omni said. 2. Keep sending demos of my EP to labels... but which ones? Your opinion on this one? Make mixes of your tunes and similar artists, or do live sets of your stuff. Spam them on every electronic music message board you can find, even if it's not dedicated to your particular style. Dogs on Acid is a DnB messageboard, but you'll find tons of trip-hop, breaks, electro, rap, metal and dubstep mixes.. most people don't just listen to one style of music. Do the same with individual tracks; put up one or two "free" tracks.. hook yourself up on Juno and start your own label, even if it's just to release your stuff and no one else's; get a name no one else is using, set up an account, put up some free tracks, and link to your shit on Juno/Beatport/iTunes. It's literally as easy as a few mouse clicks and some typing to get your stuff distributed world-wide. Don't rely on other people for something you can do on your own. Would a vinyl/CD release be amazing? Fuck yeah. The chances that your favorite label is going to see how 'incredibly groundbreaking and genius' your work is when they get 900 emails a day from people saying "OMG check out my awesome tracks you have to sign me!" is next to nothing. The most important thing for someone starting out is to have realistic expectations. No one is going to give you a deal on a whim, you have to prove that you can sell and that people want your music. If no one has heard of you outside of one messageboard, you're not coming off as a solid investment.. But if you're posting on every board, releasing your own stuff, putting up mixes, getting people talking about you, building up your reputation, you're a lot more likely to have a label actually get back to you on your e-mails or even come out and say "hey, we like your stuff, can we release some?" If you want to get a record deal, you're gonna have to do more than just make music and mail out CDs. Stir shit up, post tunes/mixes everywhere, get people talking, and you'll have a much better chance of getting picked up by a big label, or, even better, having your OWN releases on Juno/Beatport do well and not have to worry about a middle-man. |
| I'm feeling like a drama magnet right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ApR1zM replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 3:22pm |
 Coolness: 164820 | people who tend to succeed in the industry arent usually those asking all those questions! Its great for the sake of discussion but usually if your stuff is good people will recognize it and buy it! you cant blame P2p and torrent because even tho your RIPPED track might be downloaded 300 times it just wouldnt sell that much in real life! so as a music person your job is to build a fan base that is willing to support you !
if you dont succeed maybe you should change the crowd because they dont care about your music that much they just want to drink , take drugs and shake their ass to whatever sounds loud in a club environment. so yeah if you arent successful and you are pissed about it maybe youre trying to please ppl who just dont care about you. ps: omni > cest sur quon gardais nos vinyl longtemps avant ... personne avais acces a notre musique donc on se tannais ben moins. Asteur si ta pas un new set chaque semaine les gens sont tanne parce quils ont deja toute tes tounes a la maison dans leur winamp. cest pas une mauvaise chose on evolue juste plus rapidement. cest quand meme une nice observation javoue quavant jpouvais me faire une cassette pis lecouter pendant 7-8 mois dans mon walkman heaheah asteur jai comme 2gb de mp3 que je change a chaque semaine dans mon mp3 player! mais jaime ca jecoute tjs du nouveau TJS PLUS NOUVEAU :) |
| I'm feeling i did it for teh lulz right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» MattWood replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 5:03pm |
 Coolness: 39400 | Really interesting topic...I don't have time to post in depth yet tho because i have to get to work, and I haven't read the whole thread, but I just wanted to mention Tom Cosm. Really interesting model for getting yourself and your music out there...
[ www.tomcosm.com ] The way i see it, making music and making money are two totally different and equally difficult skills. If you have both then you should have a wonderful life ahead of you! ; ) |
| I'm feeling focused right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mutante replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 5:11pm |
 Coolness: 76200 | i am passionate and i spend money to make music so its normal that i have some in return.
i pay for some softwares, for mastering ( i could use cracked t-racks or L3 but i want professioanl ones...) and some labels pay for pressing records and cds. for those who dont wanna pay for music its your business but please dont compare having enough money to buy a chocolate bar to backstreet boys... comon its not black or white..... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 5:55pm |
 Coolness: 106135 | I do agree that the performance is important to a degree, and mostly to other producers and geeks. What really counts is the show. If you want to make money with music on the road, you have to sell the show.
No one really care how many vst's are loaded or if you are using this or that software or midi controller, but you have to be entertaining to watch. They dont call it show-business for nothing. ...and no, the wall of Marshall cabs aren't plugged in. I always give a lot of my music away, but some peoples insist on giving me money even though its free. That's sorta nice. I'm fortunate enough to have an interesting job that nourishes my musical passion, so it's not so bad if i dont sell any records. I quite enjoy being totally free and independant about my music. [ soundcloud.com ] |
| I'm feeling inner voices right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mutante replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 6:50pm |
| Coolness: 76200 | i know what you mean.
im realistic enough to know that im producing mostly as business card now. im not gonna go hunt for slsk users who have folders of my music but having passion wont bring any groceries too.... but theres is no way i could have played in such places like bulgaria or poland if they didnt had mp3 pirate access... BUT while you think music should be free, some labels, distro and record shops are dying so these people have to go flip burgers for a living now.... how passionate is that? |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 7:46pm |
| Coolness: 106135 | I didnt say music should be free, I said i gave a lot of my music away for free. I buy most of my music. I still buy cd's.
As for the music shops, I find it sad cus I like buying cd's but the peoples have spoken and that how its gonna be. It's called cutting out the middle man. Some jobs/positions will/have become obsolete but you dont have to go from promoting records to flipping burgers. It just means no more business as usual. The money is till out there (sorta) and It's still the labels responsibility to promote the artist so either you hire an army of lawyers and go after your fans, or you brainstorm new ideas to give monetary value to your music. We live in a time when peoples will buy stuff even though they get it for free, shouldn't be to hard. Besides, minimum wage here in Canada for musicians is... social welfare plus tips. Could be worst. |
| I'm feeling inner voices right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mutante replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 10:24pm |
| Coolness: 76200 | fliping burgers was obviously an image...
while you work for a tiny bit of money of what you like, you dont waste your time of doing useless stuff like survey, serve coffee or washing dishes. having the feeling of accomplish something with your life is even more important than doing money itself BUT.... imperatif economique oblige.... being more creative is the key i agree. giving stuff for free is at least what we should all do. and having a whole economical society based on donations instead of money value or even exchange is what we should all try to reach as a ultimate goal but once again, just changing the music business without changing the whole society is like if you put a plaster on a rotten tooth... you need to tear it off. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ufot replied on Mon Jan 25, 2010 @ 11:39pm |
 Coolness: 93120 | I think this subject will be debated for some time to come, personally for my work, it is at a level I'm comfortable with, but obviously I'm constantly trying to improve my sound. I have releases out, but haven't made a dime on them, I plan on releasing more tracks, and still doubt I will make money on them, for me what's more important is the recognition and audience capabilities via online proliferation and digital media, the after effects generate more revenue in the industry currently anyways... at least for the time being...
Ufot-128 it and if peeps want the 320 or higher, well, nothing in life is free? |
| I'm feeling happy as a panda with car troubl right now.. | |
Giving Away Our Songs Or Not?
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