Attn: Trance Heads!
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» hazel replied on Mon Dec 19, 2005 @ 5:48pm |
 Coolness: 48150 | i'm posting this because i'm sick of seeing dreamcatchers at parties!
and this goes for Mayan calendars and Buddhist symbolism, too! [ www.easternecho.com ] New Age Steals Native Spirituality, Identities By Susana Adame / Staff Writer THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2005 Are you guilty of the genocide of Native peoples? Come on now. Don't back up. Just answer the question. Although it may be tempting to answer an emphatic "NO," let's slow things down a minute and examine what this "no" really means. For a typical responder, "no" is more than likely predicated on two basic assumptions of the meaning of genocide.First, that genocide of Native peoples was an event that occurred centuries ago, and, second. that genocide is something which entails direct physical violence against a group of people. But genocide does not always entail direct physical violence, and it's not necessarily something that just ends. The American Heritage Dictionary defines genocide the following: "The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group." Within this definition, it doesn't matter how the extermination happens or how long the extermination takes. All that matters is the extermination part. In the case of Native peoples, genocidal extermination began as direct physical violence, but over the years shifted to a "more peaceful" form of genocidethe theft of Native identity. The logic goes, if there is no such thing as a Native identity, then it stands to reason that there can be no such thing as a Native person who needs a land base. This identity theft has occurred in many different ways: for example, boarding schools which "kept the child, killed the Native". More recently, however, this theft has centered largely upon the appropriation of Native spirituality. Native spirituality, unlike Christianity, is defined by a tribe's relationship with their land base. In other words, unlike Christians, who can simply walk into the church down the street to worship, Native peoples need the land particular to their individual tribe to worship. Furthermore, it is because the United States recognizes the specific cultural need for a particular land base that Native peoples have treaties and are considered sovereign nations by the U.S. government. So what does any of this have to do with genocide of Native peoples? In the '80s, a spiritual movement started in the United States called the New Age movement. For those of you who are too young to remember, the New Age experience was a movement whose basic premise was the "reclaiming" of a more nature-based religiosity. While this might sound sweet and humanitarian, digging a little deeper into the practices of New Agers demonstrates a group of people using genocidal practices to become "more natural" (unsurprisingly, they're mostly white). At no time did New Agers do any of the hard work of researching their own indigenous pasts to reclaim their own religious rootsdespite the fact that many European tribes were strongly based in earth-centered beliefs. No, New Agers went the easier route of "stealing" bits and pieces of other religions and claiming them as their own. For example, if you walk into a store catering to New Agers, you can find books and other memorabilia based in religions as far ranging as Buddhism to Taoism to the Kabbalah. Although it's not good to appropriate any religion, the various religions that New Agers generally like to meddle with do manage to retain a large measure of control simply through their relative size. That is, a group of New Agers in Ann Arbor are not going to control how Hinduism changes or manifests itself in India. It simply isn't going to happen. For Native peoples, however, this isn't the case. Representing only about one percent of the overall population of the United States, Native peoples are grossly outnumbered by New Agers when it comes to dealing with them on a tribe-by-tribe basis. Furthermore, after centuries of exploitation, imprisonment and murder for practicing their own religion, most tribes maintain a strong tribally enforced silence surrounding their religion. Outsiders are rarely, if ever, invited to participate in any ceremonies of significance, and in many cases, urban Indians may not even be allowed into a ceremony if their ties to the reservation community are not strong. Because Native communities exist with little power or control within broader social structures, any self-proclaimed "medicine wo/man" can make any outrageous claim s/he wants toand that claim will be believed to the point of fanaticism by desperate white people who are tired of the murder and greed their own religions are based upon. For example, many New Agers love to put on their own versions of a traditional Native "healing ceremony." "How-To" manuals and tapes are always popular among New Agers as well. New Age gurus have literally made millions off of their commercialization of Native spirituality. But all this commercialization has created some insane problems for the Native community. For example, Lisa Aldred, a scholar and lawyer who represents Native peoples, points out that some New Agers have copyrighted material on Native American spirituality, and sought trademark protection of Native American spiritual themes. The Southwest AIM Resolution observed that a group of non-Indians operating under the name Vision Quest, Inc. were "stealing the name and attempting to steal the concept of one of our most spiritual ceremonies." If non-Natives control patents and trademarks of religious practices, then not only are Native peoples denied the economic benefit of something they created, but they also could be sued for practicing their own religion! But most importantly, if New Agers succeed in their attacks against Native control of their own spirituality, Native peoples will no longer be a culture with specific and historic ties to a particular land baseand thus, they will no longer be Native peoples at all. The five-hundred-year genocide of North American Indians will be completed without shedding one drop of blood. So how are you participating in the genocide of Native peoples? Although you may not consider yourself a New Ager, these people have been very successful in their integration of Native culture into mainstream culture. Dream Weavers, sweat lodges, vision quests, and medicine wheels are all things that have become normalized as "Native, but not quite." Most people see no reason at all why they shouldn't be allowed to buy a ready-made sweat lodge or as many medicine wheels as they want, despite the fact that most Native activists decry the commercialization of sacred artifacts. But on a more local level, how many of you have taken Native American classes? I'm not talking about classes that deal with actual issues or topics, but those classes that dare to assume that all participants in the class are somehow participating in a Native ceremony simply by showing up for class? For example, maybe you sit in a "sacred circle" before the class begins, or you don't study Trickster stories because it's the time of the year Native peoples supposedly abstain from Trickster stories. Here's a newsflash for you: if there is something that Native peoples do or do not do out of religious observation, then you, a non-Native outsider, should not being doing it at all, regardless of what time of the year it is. Or how about those classes that teach sacred creation storieslike these stories belong to anybody and can be heard by anyone? Have you taken any of those? Although the teachers of these classes are well-meaning, the danger in outsiders having control of creation stories is that they can then be "colonized" by any non-Native who wishes to do so. And if any non-Native can claim any creation story as his ownthus symbolically 'becoming Indian'then yet again, Native peoples no longer have a singularly identifying culture which entitles them to a land base. It's not that hard, really, to be just a little respectful to a culture that has been attacked for over five hundred years. All Native peoples are asking is for you to show their religion the same respect that you would show Christians. But as I say that, I realize that most of Christianity's religious structures and artifacts are for sale somewhere. The greatest creation story of the Western world has been for sale in one form or another for centuries. So maybe the problem is to not necessarily leave Native peoples' religion alone, but to remember the sacredness of your own religion. Will there ever be a time when the Bible isn't for sale? Or is that too crazy a thought... even for a Christian? |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cvxn replied on Mon Dec 19, 2005 @ 8:50pm |
 Coolness: 178780 | Nice article :) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» beercrack replied on Mon Dec 19, 2005 @ 11:23pm |
| Coolness: 71570 | i dont get it |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Wed Dec 21, 2005 @ 5:17am |
 Coolness: 92400 | She's a stupid angry bitch who doesn't like white people. That's all there is to it. First of all, IF I did believe in the native american religion (even if it was a fabricated version of it, and even though I do not), I would not be able to just stop believeing it cause this bitch said so. When it comes to spirituality it's not like there's any one person who is less full of shit than the next. You can't structure belief. Stupid bitch. Even the cheiftans of each individual tribe will change shit, and each one of them will have their own ideas of what everything means, and spread that idea, only to be changed again, so if the new age people wanna make their own version, it is their version, not yours, stupid bitch. Ideas are a dime a dozen, nobody needs yours. Enjoy your religion and leave the outsiders alone. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» hazel replied on Wed Dec 21, 2005 @ 1:23pm |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Thu Dec 22, 2005 @ 2:05am |
| Coolness: 92400 | Why wouldn't I understand because I'm European? People love to believe they were the only ones who were opressed and that the world owes them everything. Where is the old religion of Europe? It's gone, completely lost. The ones who practiced it were pillaged and raped, or forced into the shadows and it doesn't help that the druids held an oath to secrecy that was of utmost priority. There are many people who write books about it, and who call themselves druids, when we all know, they can't be druids because we don't even know what went on beyond their closed doors. It isn't right for them to call themselves by the same name, and I can understand her frustration with things like that cause things like that frustrate me too. The thing is these people have the right to take what they can from what they know, and they have the right to believe whatever they want even if it is not the way it's "supposed" to be. Even the religions which were not completely destroyed(such as that of the natives) will be constantly changing and evolving. There are countless sects, countless ideas, countless differences. This is part of life and it happens in every religion young or old, you cannot stop it from happening, and I don't believe that anyone should. The native cheiftans are not consulting new age books, and they haven't been massacred yet, they can still practice their religion the way it's "supposed" to be. I sympathise that they hate it to be twisted and misinterpreted and it is for sure the job of the authors to indicate that the native religion was an inspiration, and that not everything they say is an accurate representation. But it's hard to sympathise when someone mis-directs their anger this way. Her anger with white people comes across very clearly to me in this article. She doesn't have to say "white people" as if it is only the fault of white people. What about blacks, browns and yellows? is it okay if they do it? The amoutn of times she said white people is phenomanal. She didn't have to take thast extra step of saying that white people will never be accepted by natives. Why would anyone feel the need to say somethign like that? Even if it is true. If a white person said something like that, they'd be lynched. That's not quite fair is it? I'm tired of all these feminists, and other minority groups demanding special treatment. We've all been opressed at some point. White people opress white people, and black people opress black people. People aren't normally culturally opressed based on the colour of their skin, they were opressed because they were in some mean person's way, and I see no reason why she only blames white people, or why she has to say that we would never be accepted. There's no reason to throw stuff like that in. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cvxn replied on Thu Dec 22, 2005 @ 1:09pm |
| Coolness: 178780 | Ben, ce que j'ai perçu de cet article,
c'est que ça blâmait le monde qui s'approprie des rituels d'autres cultures, des fois juste pour être hot, mais qui n'ont aucune idée de ce que ça veut dire... C'est pas juste les occidentaux qui font ça, j'ai lu kkpart qu'au Japon c'est in de se marier dans des églises catholiques, mais qu'à part de ça, ils sont pas vraiment pratiquants, sont Shinto et/ou Bouddhistes, mais Cathos, plus ou moins. J'ai pas trouvé l'article offensant ni rien. Tk, j'ai p-ê mal lu aussi ;) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Magmatix replied on Thu Dec 22, 2005 @ 9:48pm |
 Coolness: 53105 | C'est seulement de la convoitise de la part des gens qui espérent pouvoir bénificier du pouvoir que tels rites ou certaines religions pourraient leurs procurer ainsi ils demeurent dans l'ignorance de certains rites et certaines religions du moins jusqu'au moment ou leurs propres esprits leurs ouvrent les yeux .... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» trashandsuicide replied on Thu Dec 29, 2005 @ 6:37am |
 Coolness: 75405 | Personally, while I tend to dislike the notion of "raping a culture", I tend to very much like the notion of finding your own belief. To me, belief is what's important, not necesarily the origins, history, or even culture of that belief. To me, you have to believe in something. I study history, so the history of something is usually very interesting and/or appealing to me. But history is made up of fact, and belief is made up of faith. If you have faith in something, then go with it. It doesn't matter that it may or may not be the exact way that a shamen brought it into being a few hundred years ago, it matters that your own convictions are solid. As long as you don't go up to a native american and say "No, no, you appease the spirits LIKE THIS" (gesturing wildly to a self-help book)... then you're all good. The traditions work for them, the new-age shit works for others. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Fri Dec 30, 2005 @ 12:17am |
| Coolness: 92400 | Thank-you!! Exactly! What he said. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AYkiN0XiA replied on Mon Jan 23, 2006 @ 3:54am |
 Coolness: 166710 | this is an interesting article, i understand the point of view that is being discussed, but frankly, it is waaay too exagerated to apply this article to the dreamcatchers in raves.
first i'd like to say the guy who teached me to make dreamcatchers is an amerindian shaman that i met in a rave. he knows trance dance. would you put raves in that same category as the dream catchers because they are a sacred ritual of trance, even though most people don't even realize it... thing is, parties ARE a spiritual experience for a lot of us, and the dream catcher really fits in there. you know how it works right? the good dreams go through the center, while the bad dreams stay stuck in the web and are destroyed by the first rays of sunshine. well the rave is like a dream, but we are awake. the dreamcatchers protect the people dancing from the bad energies that would be nightmares. though there is one really important thing mentionned in this article; spirituality should NEVER be sold. if someone is trying to sell you spirituality and you buy it, you're both fucking morons who didn't get it at all, and i understand the amerindians to be frustrated of this. but this new-age thing really has nothing to do at all with the raves. when i do deco i never get paid. you don't pay for the dreamcatchers when you go to a rave, most of your money goes into renting the room and the dj stuff, etc. selling culture is stupid, but sharing culture is good. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» hazel replied on Tue Jan 24, 2006 @ 2:10am |
| Coolness: 48150 | I think what i'm getting from both trashandsuicide and goajña is that you feel like it is okay to use a spiritual practice that is not a part of your culture because If you have faith in something, then go with it andthe guy who teached me to make dreamcatchers is an amerindian shaman that i met in a rave .
I have to disagree that it is okay for non-natives to practice Indigenous spiritual practices. As it says in the additional article i've included below, Carter Camp (Ponca) Lakota Times "...Those of the New Age have proven themselves
willing to disregard the right of American Indians to a modicum of cultural sanctity or psychological sanctity. They too, willfully and consistently disregard the protests and objections of their victims, speaking only of their own "right to know" and to victimize. They too, have persistently shown themselves willing to lie, distort, fabricate, cheat and steal in order to accomplish their agenda. Why? The answers are as simple as the fact that they are here and that they fully plan to stay. While the New Age can hardly be accused rationally of performing the conquest of the Americas, and its adherents go to great lengths in expressing their dismay at their methods used therein, they have clearly inherited what their ancestors gained by conquest, both in terms of resources and in terms of relative power. The New Agers, for all their protestations to the contrary, aren't about to give up any power. It is a somewhat tricky psychological project to be able to "feel good about themselves" through "legitimizing" the maintenance of their own colonial privilege. The invaders' "contributions", however invented they may be, inevitably "entitle" them to superior status; there may have been a problem once, but it's in the past so forget it; we're all in this together now, so let's move forward (with me in the lead); I'm OK, you"re OK (so long as you stay in your place and don't upset me with questions of, or challenges to my privilege)" Myself, i am not too familiar with spiritual practices in general, let alone any of the Indigenous religions, but i do have an eagle feather that was given to me, and i have been in a sweat ceremony. I would never display this feather, however, or talk at all about the ceremony i went through, because i wasn't given these things so that i could pretend i was an expert in them. goajña, i understand how meaningful it must be to you to have been taught how to make a dreamcatcher, but i don't think it's okay that you display them at parties, even if raves are spiritual for you, because dreamcatchers are part of a different different culture from yours. It's similar to dreadlocks on white people. It now seems regular and okay for whites to nap up their hair, but they didn't start doing it until Bob Marley became famous and whites wanted to identify with him, raggae, and rastafarianism (an African pride religion). Dreadlocks used to mean something very powerful, and now they are a fashion statement. The same thing can be said for dreamcatchers. They are now all over the place--many cars now have them hanging from their mirrors. Even if their intentions are good, i think there are better ways to promote a positive atmosphere than by using spiritual objects from another culture. Particularly an Indigenous culture, since i see it as insulting to use their spiritual objects while at the same time stealing their land, resources and sovereignty. 
Spiritual Commodification and Misappropriation What Native People Want You To Understand Compiled by Mariah Jones [ www.sonomacountyfreepress.com ] There is a disinformation campaign in progress in Sonoma County to undermine Native peoples' nationwide efforts to protect their ceremonial processes from abuse. The promulgators would have you believe that only a few "militant" Indians are concerned about this exploitation by those who have no real knowledge of the deep inner meaning inherent in these ceremonies. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of Native people DO object to this phenomenon. If you stand with Indian people, then you respect their moral right to decide under which circumstances their ceremonies will be "shared" with non-Indians. Please read the following statements by Native people. They are spiritual leaders, authors, attorneys, anthropologists, scholars, activists, educators and tribal leaders. Though they represent just a small percentage of those who have spoken out on this issue, the concepts presented will give you some idea of the perspective you are being asked to consider. "What's at issue here is the same old question that Europeans have always posed with regard to American Indians, whether what's ours isn't somehow theirs. And, of course, they've always answered in the affirmative. Now, being spiritually bankrupt themselves, they want our spirituality as well. So, they make up rationalizations to explain why they're entitled to it." Russell Means (Lakota) "The process is ultimately intended to supplant Indians, even in areas of their own customs and spirituality. In the end, non-Indians will have complete power to define what is and is not Indian, even for Indians. When this happens, the last vestiges of real Indian society and Indian rights will disappear. Non-Indians will then "own" our heritage and ideas as thoroughly as they now claim to own our land and resources." Pam Colorado (Oneida) "...On the other hand, the stereotypical and grossly distortive work of Hyemeyohsts Storm, a man only marginally Indian, has earned him the wrath of the Northern Cheyenne people with whom he claimed affiliation." Wendy Rose (Hopi) "Do the names Sun Bear, Wallace Black Elk, Oh Shinna Fast Wolf, Brook Medicine Eagle, Harley Reagan Swiftdeer, Buck Ghost Horse, or Mary Thunder mean anything to you? Well, they should, because these pseudo-medicine quacks are passing themselves off as Native American spiritual leaders. Native American spirituality has become a fad to many New Age non-Indians and their naivete is being exploited to the limit by plastic medicine people, much to the dismay of traditional elders. Practicing Native American spirituality out of the context of Native American culture diminishes the integrity of both. Many of these people are actually Indians who are spreading false rituals for profit. The rest are white men and women who claim to be Indian. For the most part they have changed their names to Indian names to lend authenticity to their flock. One way to tell if these people are legitimate is whether they go into the Native American communities they claim to be from and perform the same rituals." l99l Turtle Island Project Newsletter Chairperson--Betty Cooper (Blackfeet) "There are some obvious tip-offs for people interested in Indian customs and ceremonies. One is simplistic vision quests. You can wait a whole lifetime for a vision--these guys have visions about every week." Avis Little Eagle (Lakota) "They want to become Indian without holding themselves accountable to Indian communities. If they did, they would have to listen to Indians telling them to stop carrying around sacred pipes...and to stop appropriating our spiritual practices. Rather, these New Agers see Indians as romanticized gurus who exist only to meet their consumerist needs...They trivialize Native American practices so that these practices lose their spiritual force....Their perceived need for warm and fuzzy mysticism takes precedence over our need to survive." Andy Smith (Cherokee) "The realities of Indian belief and existence have become so misunderstood and distorted at this point that when a real Indian stands up and speaks the truth at any given moment, he or she is not only unlikely to be believed, but will probably be publicly contradicted and "corrected" by the citation of some non-Indian and totally inaccurate "expert". Vine Deloria, Jr. (Lakota) "These people have nothing to say on the matters they claim to be so expert about. To whites, they claim they're "messengers", but from whom? They are not the messengers of Indian people. I am a messenger and I do not charge for my ceremonies." Thomas Banyacya (Hopi) "We cannot prevent people from throwing their money away on so-called "Indian Ceremonies", but we can challenge those who misuse our sacred pipes, sweatlodges and ceremonies." The Traditional Circle of Elders "Non-Indians have become so used to all this hype on the part of impostors and liars that when a real Indian spiritual leader tries to offer them useful advice, he is rejected. He isn't "Indian" enough for all these non-Indian experts on Indian religion. Now, this is not only degrading to Indian people, it's downright delusional behavior...We've got real problems today, tremendous problems which threaten the survival of the planet. Indians and non-Indians must confront these problems together,...but this dialogue is impossible so long as non-Indians remain deluded about things as basic as Indian spirituality." Chief Oren Lyons (Onondaga) "What about the quest for Native spirituality? It is mostly ESCAPIST, and people like Lynn Andrews, and other would-be shamans would rather look to an ideal, romanticized "Native" living in never-never land than confront the reality of what being Native means in this society. Our elders and traditional teachers want to share the beauty of Native cultures, the Native way. But appropriation is not sharing. Appropriation exploits and commercializes Native cultures, and is harmful to innocent people." Lenore Keeshig-Tobias (Ojibwe) "Not Just Entertainment" Whole Earth Review '91 "Each tribe has their own unique ways which only they can fully understand...each tribe has their own sacred ceremonies, songs, dances and prayers which form their own tribal religious ways. These come from each tribe's history, science, environment and all the things which make up our different cultures. I am Ponca because of over l0,000 years of intermingling the lives, blood and history of my tribe upon Ponca land. Every movement and action is blessed with a meaning handed down by generations of ancestors and held within our tribal memory. I say these things because I want to warn people about some bad things happening to traditional ways. All across Indian country, in every city and state, white people are commercializing Lakota ceremonies. Our ways cannot be bought and sold like bibles. No knowledge, no science, no language, no culture is involved in their pitiful mockery of traditional ways. They actually believe that by singing or drumming the right song, they are doing something Indian. Medicine equals magic to them. Their ignorance is an insult to even the very simplest of our ceremonies, but their white arrogance leads them to believe they can learn in a week what an Indian learns in many lifetimes. It is time we who value old ways begin to explain to our non-Indian guests that our basic philosophy of respect for the circle of life is open to the understanding of all races. But if our tribal ceremonies are to survive with meaning and dignity for our children, we must explain to the wasoci that it is not necessary for them to pretend to be Indian to understand the nature of the circle. How can Lakota children find the same respect for tribal ways our grandfathers handed down to us if hundreds of these pitiful ones are out waving Pipes, pouring water, singing songs learned from cassettes and whipping a drum? Carter Camp (Ponca) Lakota Times "...Those of the New Age have proven themselves willing to disregard the right of American Indians to a modicum of cultural sanctity or psychological sanctity. They too, willfully and consistently disregard the protests and objections of their victims, speaking only of their own "right to know" and to victimize. They too, have persistently shown themselves willing to lie, distort, fabricate, cheat and steal in order to accomplish their agenda. Why? The answers are as simple as the fact that they are here and that they fully plan to stay. While the New Age can hardly be accused rationally of performing the conquest of the Americas, and its adherents go to great lengths in expressing their dismay at their methods used therein, they have clearly inherited what their ancestors gained by conquest, both in terms of resources and in terms of relative power. The New Agers, for all their protestations to the contrary, aren't about to give up any power. It is a somewhat tricky psychological project to be able to "feel good about themselves" through "legitimizing" the maintenance of their own colonial privilege. The invaders' "contributions", however invented they may be, inevitably "entitle" them to superior status; there may have been a problem once, but it's in the past so forget it; we're all in this together now, so let's move forward (with me in the lead); I'm OK, you"re OK (so long as you stay in your place and don't upset me with questions of, or challenges to my privilege)" Ward Churchill (Creek/Cherokee Metis) Fantasies of the Master Race, l992 "This process of white dabbling in American Indian spiritual rituals represents the ultimate absorption. Native American spirituality becomes a commodity in the Euroamerican market place, to be bought and sold alongside other "New Age" items." M. Annette Jaimes (Juaneno/Yaqui) "I'm just tired of people going around representing themselves as healers and medicine people. We hear of it all the time, and no one is bothering to check their credibility or credentials." |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Tue Jan 24, 2006 @ 2:25am |
| Coolness: 92400 | Okay, well if that's the case, I don't want any black people driving cars, cause cars were invented by white people. Why is it okay for people of any race to dye their hair blonde? Blonde hair only happens on white people. And while we're at it, black people aren't allowed to practice christianity either. Christianity is from white people. So if white people can't believe in what the native people's believe in, black people certainly can't believe in what white people do either. Don't try to come and tell me it's different cause it's most certainly not. The natives have a beautiful religion, and belief is not somethign we chose. Belief is something we can't even help. To represent yourself as a people you know nothing about, and inject your own ideas into their cultures historically, as a lie, is not right, but you cannot tell people not to use their symbols or believe in their religion, because this is what happens with.. let's see.. EVERYONE ELSES'S RELIGIONS. You talk abotu taking land and this and that well I got a news flash for you. The native people's and their culture was spared. If we were other people in other times at the time we took this place over, tehir culture and their religion woudl have been OBLITERATED. Go and try and find me an example of a culture who was conquered and who's ways of life or religions were spared. Only the natives have that pleasure. They shoudl be fucking thankful. You idiot, your ancestors and their culture are fuckign dead, gone, washed away into history, but you are so ignorant you didn't even bother exploring that before bitching at us for the natives. I am sick and tired of discrimination being a one-sided story. If you don't like white poeple, go home. Otherwise, shut the fuck up and deal with it JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. So next time I see a black man wearing a cross, I guess I should rip it right off his fucking neck, cause it's not his fucking right to believe in god if it's not our right to believe in dream catchers. People like you are a waste of life. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AYkiN0XiA replied on Tue Jan 24, 2006 @ 11:15pm |
| Coolness: 166710 | sophia sophia... though i totally agree with what you say, anger won't lead you anywhere except maybe to heart diseases... ;)
--- what you say about dreadlocks is not even true. rastafarians don't own the concept of dreadlocks, sivaites from india, and vickings used to have dreadlocks way before that. they are just naturally occuring when you stop brushing your hair and using conditionner. if i follow your 'logic', then we shouldn't be having peircings and tatooings either right? and we shouldn't smoke pot, or eat the sacred mushrooms ou listen to reggae music because it is not OUR culture. and tons more of things we shouldn't do. but how about we open up and learn from them? we have the resources for it and those things are teachings. i am not any culture. i am them all. i am a human, and i am working on understanding what it is to be human from every perspective. it is not your racial features that give you the right to experience and believe in certain things. souls have no colors no nationality and no specific culture. every culture is a different appreciation of what it is to be human. now that we open up and share, of course there will be people using things wrong. but i think humanity in the long term will get more benefit from sharing, because we will come to realize that WE ARE ALL THE SAME. no one is more 'sacred' or 'spiritual' than the others. and of course anyone looking to make money out of something is full of bullshit, but the people living their own free spirituality should not be stopped because someone thinks they 'own' something. no one owns anything. i repeat again using a dreamcatcher in a rave is not out of disrespect, it is actually out of respect from the earth that we are dancing upon. we know the amerindians had trance parties too to heal the earth, and the dream catcher reminds us of our roots. we are healers too when we trance dance. we go on vision quests too, or, well, some of us do. we know where we are from and we also know our ancestors were very disrespectful to the amerindians because they imposed their white culture on them. now that our generations finally open up and want to learn from them and show interest because we realize they know, they are accusing people of stealing what is theirs. i understand their collective ego can feel hurt because globalizalization makes everyone realize NO ONE IS NOTHING SPECIAL. everyone is spiritual. everyone is connected to the earth. everyone is life in a body. what is indian? what is white? blood? skin? deep inside we are the same. my spirit has no nation. my blood is blood. my skin is white. my spirit has no nation. my spirit has no nation. i live from the earth. i go on vision quests. i heal with trance. i pray to god. i understand brahma, vishnu and shiva. beyond blood and beyond skin you are my brother. our spirits have no nation. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AYkiN0XiA replied on Tue Jan 24, 2006 @ 11:23pm |
| Coolness: 166710 | (and this is one important teaching of the hippies that originated the psychedelic movement.) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» hazel replied on Tue Jan 24, 2006 @ 11:27pm |
| Coolness: 48150 | one love, crackers |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AYkiN0XiA replied on Tue Jan 24, 2006 @ 11:39pm |
| Coolness: 166710 | (sorry for so many replies, but i still have things to say.)
there is nothing wrong with those articles. they are very efficiently pinning a problem of society. but you are attacking the wrong thing with them. raves are not 'selling spiritual culture' unless you see the rave as a commercial thing. what is a rave for you? what do you look for in a rave? why are you sick of seeing these things? it obviously has nothing to do with those articles because no one paid for the art and symbolism you see. they are just an expression of what the world is, of our ideals, of our beliefs, as human being. trance has no nationality. trance is worldwide. trance is globalization. now yes, trance has a problem nowadays of becoming more commercial and less tribal. and notice, in those commercial parties, you won't find any dreamcatchers....... or if you find some, they have been brought by the people who didn't get any money out of the party. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AYkiN0XiA replied on Tue Jan 24, 2006 @ 11:47pm |
| Coolness: 166710 | (this picture is not an appropriate reply. all young people are confused and searching who they are. it's part of life. we're spaeking adults here.) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» hazel replied on Wed Jan 25, 2006 @ 12:11am |
| Coolness: 48150 | sorry about the last post. i actually just came back to try and delete it, but you get here first. i was kind of just pissed at moondancer for being so willfully ignorant, but i know that throwing up an angry post isn't going to do anything but make me feel better, which is, whatever, but it's not the point of this discussion.
For me, i'm not more worried about symbols being sold or not, i'm concerned that imperialist cultures (like the western kkkanadian/u$ culture) take these symbols and pretend that it's okay. To quickly answer moondancer's racist rant about christianity being only for whites (i don't care if it's sarcastic or not, it's racist), christianity is a religion that has spread through war. Christianity killed tens of millions of women in europe during the witch hunts, millions of jews during the inquisition, and tens of millions of indigenous people on these continents. Christianity was one of the weapons used at residential schools in canada, the us and australia to attack their cultures and assimilate their children into this euro-imperialist culture. There's so much history behind this, but it's not dead history, it's living history, because these patterns continue to this day. By whites using buddhas, mayan calendars, sweat ceremonies, etc., they are stealing these very sacred and important cultural signifiers INTO THEIR OWN CULTURE, making them a part of our culture without the permission of the people to whom these originally belong. I wish you could google "cultural appropriation" or "appropriation culturelle" and just read what people of color have to say about it. Deep inside, yes, we are the same, but i don't see everyone as equal and neither does anyone else i've ever known. Prejudice and racism are real, and we just need to be aware of how we each manifest these and fight it inside of ourselves, as well as pointing out to each other when we unconsciously act inappropriately. I'll close with a phrase that has been a big part of my life the last couple of years: constructive criticism is an act of love. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» AYkiN0XiA replied on Wed Jan 25, 2006 @ 12:21am |
| Coolness: 166710 | we are not stealing when we are understanding. i have been raised as a christian and it took me hinduism and shamanism and lsd to really know what christianism is. all religions are the same, no matter what symbol you use for it. come on. it's just symbols. we are more than this. people not seeing people equal is actually the major problem we are facing now. it is what keeps us from having a true spirituality, detached from material ownership and icons. to the eyes of god we are all equal. to the eyes of the great spirit we are equal. to the eyes of the buddha we are all equal.
we have to get over ourselves. detachment is a great lesson in life. it is one with the spiritual path. they are all paths to go to the same oneness in the end - death. some religions have been corrupted, that doesn't mean i should follow it because it is the one i was born 'under'. seeing the truth in every religion helps seeing the bigger truth. |
Attn: Trance Heads!
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