Vinyl Vs Cdj'S
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PoiSoNeD_CaNdY replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 12:07am |
 Coolness: 91900 | This article should get a lively debate going :)
With a Nod to Vinyl, CD's Take Over the Turntable By MICHAEL GWERTZMAN F you really want to prove yourself as a disc jockey, you have to do it with vinyl. That's been the mindset ever since D.J.'s emerged as musicians in their own right. Spinning vinyl records on analog turntables, manipulating them manually, scratching and doing tricks: a D.J.'s skills and status were determined by his ability to do it with wax on wheels of steel - that is, vinyl on two turntables. The Technics SL-1200 MK2 Turntable, introduced in 1979, has been the undisputed turntable leader among D.J.'s, with a sturdy feel, adjustable and accurate pitch control and powerful platter torque. But after more than 20 years of turntable dominance, the D.J.'s steadfast allegiance to vinyl appears to be slipping, if not altogether severed. Spinning off CD's instead of vinyl has become the norm among the top tier of touring club D.J.'s, and that preference is starting to filter down to the wider consumer market. File sharing, the proliferation of affordable CD burners and the high cost of vinyl records have all had a hand in vinyl's fall. But the strongest force has been the development of high-quality CD alternatives to the conventional turntable. Known as CDJ's and digital turntables, these units allow manual control of CD's by use of a record-sized platter that acts as a control mechanism for the CD. D.J.'s are able to produce the same audio effects possible with vinyl records - including the coveted ability to scratch - by dragging the platter back and forth. The four leading units, the Technics SL-DZ1200, introduced over the summer, along with the Pioneer CDJ-1000MK2, the Denon DS-5000 and Numark's CDX, feature a similar core design, with each unit adding its own feel and features. All aspire to do the same thing: let D.J.'s spin CD's with the same manual control they were accustomed to from a vinyl turntable. Pioneer CDJ-1000MK2 Pioneer's first-generation model was a breakthrough when it was released in 2001, offering the closest digital approximation of the vinyl experience. Its current version, the CDJ-1000MK2, has become the market leader in digital decks. With an eight-inch jog wheel front and center, the CDJ is designed to work like a vinyl deck. D.J.'s grab a corner of the jog wheel to speed up a track or slow it down as they would with a record. And like the classic Technics turntable, the Pioneer [ www.pioneerprodj.com ] has a pitch control slider that controls a track's beats per minute, offering expanded speed options (up to plus or minus 100 percent). But it's the "vinyl" mode that has made the Pioneer model attractive to vinyl D.J.'s. With this option engaged, the jog wheel becomes a control pad for a virtually spinning turntable platter. The D.J. can press down on the jog wheel to stop a track while it's playing, rotate the wheel backward and rewind the track to a desired section. The vinyl-like manual control is a solid foundation for an array of inventive digital features. Loop playback lets D.J.'s choose a few seconds of a track that they want to repeat endlessly. D.J.'s can also set three hot cue pads, which instantly return or forward a track to a set time. And the master tempo mode preserves a track's pitch while letting the D.J. alter its speed. That means no more Chipmunk vocals when a track is sped up. All these features mean the CDJ-1000 is not for the recreational D.J. At $1,300, the CDJ-1000MK2 costs as much as two Technics vinyl decks, and far more than the starter D.J. sets on the market. Pioneer offers a lower-priced model, the CDJ-800 ($600), slightly smaller than the 1000 and offering fewer options for pitch control and hot cues but with the same basic platter controls. Denon DN-S5000 At $900, the Denon DN-S5000 takes the concept of vinyl mimicry a step further. Like Pioneer, Denon [ www.usa.denon.com ] has given its deck a jog wheel prominently placed in the middle, but this one actually spins like a motorized vinyl platter. The wheel can be fitted with an actual 45-r.p.m. record that works as a control surface for the spinning platter. D.J.'s can manipulate the spinning platter to speed up, slow down, rewind or stop a track, and the platter's movement makes these actions intuitive for any D.J. with vinyl know-how. The platter's belt-drive motor closely emulates the torque and feel of the Technics vinyl deck, and makes cueing and mixing records a similar process. There's also a pitch control slider with two pitch bend buttons that let D.J.'s digitally bump a track forward or backward, the audio equivalent of nudging a spinning vinyl record with a finger. Scratchers will be satisfied with the DN-S5000. The spinning platter provides something missing on the CDJ-1000: a visual aid. Scratch D.J.'s can use the platter to know exactly how far to spin a record back to return to a particular scratch point. For digital tricks, there are a number of sample, loop and play modes that expand on the Pioneer model's capabilities, although the DN-S5000's interface can be a bit confusing. The easiest feature is the set of four sample banks, each capable of 15 seconds of recording time. Once set, these loops can be jumped to at any point. An innovation is the DN-S5000's alpha mode, which essentially turns one unit into two. Alpha mode lets D.J.'s play two tracks simultaneously from the same CD, with separate audio outs dedicated to the alpha and main sound channels. But because the alpha and main tracks share the same platter interface, it's easy to become confused about which track is assigned to what, creating the potential for performance disasters. Technics SL-DZ1200 With its SL-DZ1200, Technics has kept things basic. There are no multiple play modes and no confusing control interfaces. D.J.'s schooled in the SL-1200 will be able to get started right away with its digital progeny. Technics' parent, Panasonic [ www.panasonic.com ] is marketing the DZ-1200 as a digital turntable, and it plays tracks from both compact discs and SD Memory Cards. Like the Denon unit, the SL-DZ1200 uses a spinning platter as a control mechanism for the selected track, and the touch is remarkably similar to the SL-1200. Scratch D.J.'s can give the SL-DZ1200 a workout: the 10-inch platter has a sturdy, rugged feel and plenty of room for hands. The audio sounds clear and punchy. For digital add-ons, Technics has kept the options limited. Four sample pads, storing up to 32 seconds of audio, are just above and to the left of the platter. Once recorded, the samples can be laid over the main track's audio. There is also a looping function, along with four cue pads that can jump to and from different points on a disc. But the Technics' extra features, especially a built-in set of audio effect processors and on-board sample editing, don't add much to the core D.J. experience. And while the spinning platter emulates the analog SL-1200 well, it's physically much more sensitive. It's easy for a track to spin wildly out of control with the slightest push. With a price around $900, the unit doesn't stack up next to the Denon or Pioneer models in terms of extra features. But it is remarkably easy to use right out of the box and flawlessly performs the essential functions that D.J.'s expect from digital turntables. Numark CDX Numark's CDX takes the vinyl emulation design full circle. It is a full-size unit with an actual 12-inch record set on top of a spinning platter. From afar, the $800 unit looks like a vinyl turntable with its tone arm and cartridge ripped off, and the design is based around Numark's own TTX turntable. Numark [ www.numark.com ] has always courted "turntablists" as customers, the hard-core scratch D.J.'s who perform routines and tricks, and the CDX is presented as the most scratch-friendly option on the market. It synthesizes many of the innovations and features of the other CD decks, but because it has a 12-inch platter, it retains the closest tactile similarity to vinyl. The platter torque is solid and doesn't suffer from the sensitivity problems of the SL-DZ1200. The CDX layout is simple and clean, with two easy-to-see Start and Pause buttons just below the platter. On the upper left are the built-in audio effects, and on the upper right is the track navigation and display screen. There is no sampler, but a there is loop-in function that works like the Pioneer and Technics units. The CDX can play MP3 files stored on CD-R/RW. There are few extra features or bells and whistles on the CDX; Numark has really focused on its vinyl-like feel and control. The digital audio effects are good and more useful for performance than the ones on the SL-DZ1200, but this is not the CDX's strong suit. It is a heavy-duty digital deck that offers the closest approximation of working with vinyl records. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» El_Presidente replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 2:12am |
 Coolness: 299535 | The thing is, I used to buy a lot of cds before mp3s existed. and when they came out i stopped buying them and started buying vinyl instead. By buying vinyl I support the artists that I truly like. Some of them now offer cd singles but I am now addicted to vinyl and I will keep buying it. I used a cdj-1000 this weekened to play a track I had gotten made for the party, and I found that it was pretty similar, but I still prefer vinyl by far. I think it's the visual/tactile aspect of it. It's a physical thing, you touch the music. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Lady replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 2:30am |
 Coolness: 182740 | i have no idea how to dj at all ,but i like vynil better as well,i guess you can call me a collector!!
in my opinion by using vinyl, it shows some sort of more skill coming from the dj then a cdj would , but thats just me although i guess it is always good to know how to use both incase there is a pirticular track ony available on cd.. and DAN MESSAGE ME BACK OR PICK UP YER PHONE DAMMIT!!!!!!!!! i like this thread :) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PitaGore replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 12:26pm |
 Coolness: 472015 | The more tools the better
I use both personnaly ... wouldnt live without vinyls ..even if touring worldwide or whatever .. but when i'M impatient to get a new choon or too broke to get it and i got it on cd ; well i drop it in .. i found that in a soundsystem if you're careful about the levels it doenst create such a difference in the sound ... my 2 cents |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» G__ replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 6:03pm |
 Coolness: 141575 | i'd use the Technics CDJ for doing live remixes of tracks, there are alot of things you can do to manipulate songs with it, and I find it to be a pretty damn nice peice of machine |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» beercrack replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 7:04pm |
| Coolness: 71645 | digital seeks to emulate the analog
eventually the bits will be as big as the atoms and it will all be the same all in all this is simply electrical impulses generated by sound equipment the goal is the same but i still have fun playing with the platter at all speeds. slowing it down to a warble then spinning it off into hyperchipmunk drive... the nature of vinyl (short record times) demands of us active participation in the music & the fact that most digital equipment seeks to emulate the turntable format shows that format itself is still highly fundamental in the act the major drawback of the vinyl is that it is bulky (as someone who has hundreds of records i can attest to that...) and that they necessitate a particular attention to upkeep. the charm of the glitch of dust in the grooves has its moments and every crackle and pop can be traced to a particular moment and memories but ideally i like to keep my records clean... though they will show me otherwise... the analog turntable is still very primordial and electric and the digital disc is more evolved and sanitized i would say (safer from dust. digital glitches do happen though. can you play them at super slow speeds just for fun? - not much value in that, but u know it has its charms) each has its advantages for the sake of it i enjoy my vinyl collection and have always prefered vinyl over CDs (something maybe ascribed to - it feels closer to owning an analog master for example. i always feel owning the record is more "real" - the size, the nature, the fragility, the electric as opposed to computerized (though the computer is a simply evolved form of electric switches) ) take for example the forthcoming Richard D. James release on Rephlex records (Analord 10 [hah!]) - recorded all on analog equipment - and released on (highly collectible, and marketable) analog medium (the 12"). interesting for the purist... this may just be an esthetic value. but what is music if not a certain type of esthetic? i love how some records the groove is so powerful the needle is jumping up and down. powerful grooves.... anywhich way be good to each other! is this like the mac vs pc debate? anyways it is cheaper to drop a CD-R than for example a dub plate... the dub plate was a symbol, and still is the CD-R is abit more populist . the times they are a changing all in all just blend it and tweak it nice and the kids are happy whether you do it through acid DJ, CDJ, sl-1200, or grooveboxin keep it rocking (can i follow my own advice? oooh) my 2 cents ;) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» beercrack replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 7:08pm |
| Coolness: 71645 | but yeah i can see records becoming obsolete one day...
but still at the beginning of the 21st century we still use this old technology but hey - the light bulb is about as old too and we still use it use your lightbulb |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Fri Sep 24, 2004 @ 7:40pm |
 Coolness: 201435 | I find it costs less to burn a cd than have a vinyl pressed (or a dubplate)...
Plus you can do retrigger effects in cd-djs that are not possible on decks. But I dunno everything has it's ups and downs. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Sat Sep 25, 2004 @ 11:30am |
 Coolness: 145410 | i just like the smell of plates. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Oliver_TwisteD replied on Sat Sep 25, 2004 @ 2:01pm |
 Coolness: 85895 | well.. cd scratching won't sound as good as a real vinyl, but as scott said, you can't pull that retrigger buisness on a vinyl, as well as seamless loops. I don't really bother with turntables, cause i pretty much only play my own stuff, unless it's wierd stuff for sampling.. like putting paint thinner on record and watching the grooves rub off while it's playing.. or placing a 45'(the one's with the big holes in the middle) overtop a 33. the 45 will keep knocking the needle back, creating a wierd loop..
ahhh, good clean noiseeee fun~ |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» soyfunk replied on Sat Sep 25, 2004 @ 4:59pm |
 Coolness: 126980 | live musician vs diskjockeys |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PitaGore replied on Sat Sep 25, 2004 @ 7:34pm |
| Coolness: 472015 | live musicians win, but that is not the point |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» soyfunk replied on Sat Sep 25, 2004 @ 9:45pm |
| Coolness: 126980 | there is no point
it's the same useless battle |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» BOBDYLAN replied on Sun Sep 26, 2004 @ 6:44am |
 Coolness: 148395 | as a nobody, I prefer the sound coming out of vinyl system.
you, know, mister, leather, 2004! //vinyl soot forever! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» xbsd replied on Mon Sep 27, 2004 @ 12:45am |
| Coolness: 76955 | do you travel with an horse or with a car ?
cdjs all the way. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ufot replied on Mon Sep 27, 2004 @ 1:07am |
 Coolness: 93310 | ya well is your car stolen, did u "buy" it? do u ride in a car because u are afraid of horse, or simply can't ride them proper?
Thought so... ufot-minds that were molded with clay |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Mon Sep 27, 2004 @ 1:29am |
| Coolness: 201435 | Hey I'd be happy right now if people 'stole' my music and played it in sets...
MP3s = bad sound quality though in general, and if it's an mp3 of a ripped vinyl track you have 2 strikes on sound quality right there... So having a set that's all mp3s burned to CDs just means you aren't too serious about being a DJ... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Mon Sep 27, 2004 @ 1:38am |
| Coolness: 201435 | Here is something that will make you think...
You have an mp3 of a ripped vinyl track... The recording isn't perfect (most aren't), and it's a 192kbit mp3... So you have a bit of noise from the vinyl dirt/needle/wires/connection to the computer, then have it compressed in a lossy format... Still sounds ok... You play your mp3 burned on to a cd, in a set you are recording on your computer, again you get a bit of noise from the wires/mixer etc... Plus you might have eq'ed the shit out of the track and possibly made the hiss and what not worse... Then you encode your mix as a 128kbit mp3 file, so your song that has been recorded from vinyl, encoded, played again through your dj setup and possible weirdly EQ'd and maybe played at a different pitch, then is encoded again in an mp3 of your mix.... The end result = bad sound quality! So don't use mp3s in your mixes people! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PitaGore replied on Mon Sep 27, 2004 @ 11:55am |
| Coolness: 472015 | -it's the same useless battle-Soyfunk
Useless = true 'nuff Whatever the way to diffuse music its all good ...as long as there's music .. 10 years ago or so they were playing d.a.t's at psytrance parties ...and it wasnt that bad thought right now we can laugh at it .. Fuck i respect the bum with his de-tuned guitar playing outdoor if the final vibe of the sounds make sense .. its all music ... to me the rest doesnt matter at all wouldnt live without music could live without technology |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Miller replied on Mon Sep 27, 2004 @ 11:57am |
 Coolness: 57400 | not everybody that uses cdj's play mp3.... come to think of it, i cant even think of one dj at the moment that plays them.
just because someone uses cd's doesent mean they are not buying the music, there is such things as origional cds out there you know. i find that the cdj's will take over soon, but not for awhile. sound quality is so much better on cj, the sound of a needle on a record doesent really do it for me though.... everybody has there own tastes. "do u ride in a car because u are afraid of horse, or simply can't ride them proper? " is it that you cant drive a car or are simply afraid of newer forms of transportation |
Vinyl Vs Cdj'S
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