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How To Argue On The Internet Without Becoming A Troll
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Thu 13 Sep, 2012 @ 5:55pm |
 Coolness: 106090 | It's September of an election year, and people are drawing lines, taking stands, and proclaiming their political beliefs. Even the lurkers, who brag that they "never post political stuff on Facebook" find their trigger fingers twitching over the "share" button. The internet is a battlefield, and you simply can't get around online without being drawn into a shootout from time to time. When that happens, these tips will keep you knocking down opponents without losing your cool or becoming a troll.
Don't Use Metaphors If you find yourself typing out the words, "It's kinda like if…" then stop immediately and delete what you've written. The silence of your non-response is going to carry much more weight than your argument. Metaphors—comparing the situation you're debating to a different situation—are the cyanide of online arguments. What's wrong with metaphors? Metaphors are a teaching method and work wonderfully when your audience is on your side. When someone is on your side, they mentally find the comparison points and use them to enrich their understanding of what you're saying. When they're against you, they focus solely on the differences between your case and the example case. As soon as they do, you're no longer debating about the original point. A second debate thread has been created, and now you're debating whether or not your point is comparable to X. Getting back to your original argument is nearly impossible. Additionally, metaphors can easily offend. Remember that on the internet, people are desperate to take anything personally. Once they do, the debate will be completely derailed and centered around whether or not you think they're a dog, child, Hitler, or whatever other foolish thing you compared them to. Look at these two statements and determine which one is stronger: "What you're doing is kinda like asking me to come pick you up when your car is out of gas, and then complaining about how long it took me to show up." "What you're doing is selfish." Don't Post Links Only a few of the links you post in a regular, friendly conversation with all parties in agreement actually get clicked and read by your audience. If someone's ass is completely chapped over your opinion, imagine how much less they're going to care about which blog posts have moved you. People don't involve themselves in online arguments because they want to click around and "read more internet." They've been doing that already, and they've finally read enough to form an opinion. They're ready to test it out by fighting over it, and that's how you got involved. They're not going to read the link. Do Post an Occasional Quote An occasional quote from an intelligent person is great for bringing in a bit of ammunition, especially when they say it better than you can. But keep it short. If your opponent sees a quote mark followed by a pile of sentences, they're just going to skip it. Be careful about quoting people who are themselves debatable. If you're quoting Ayn Rand or Karl Marx, be prepared to start a new debate about Ayn Rand or Karl Marx. Deal With Petty Insults Effectively Did they call you an idiot, or a child, or a Nazi? Good, that means you've almost won. At this point, you have two choices: Deliver the finishing blow or get upset about their insult. There are two typical responses to being insulted, both bad: Flipping shit: Petty insults persist as a strategy because sometimes people get trolled by them, and when they do, the ensuing firestorm makes everyone look bad. The offender knows they have lost, so they take one last chance of bringing the winner down to a tie. Don't fall for it. Describing at length why you're not what they said you were: Have you ever noticed that when you're truly sick, and you call in to work, you just groan out that "I'm really sick." But when "sick" means your buddies want you to head to the beach, you find yourself on the phone describing the exact times you vomited last night and this morning, the consistency and make-up of your bowel movements, and how you've never felt quite like this before? That's because truth often needs no explaining. If you're not an idiot, simply say you're not. When you get insulted, start by destroying any real arguments they made in their comment, then briefly deny the insult and patronize them for it: "And I'm not an idiot, don't talk to me like that." Don't Ask Questions You should never ask someone a question in a debate. When you do, you are ceding the podium to them and welcoming them onstage. Your question allows them to discuss their arguments from basically any angle they want as long as they loosely use your question as a point of departure. Just like with metaphors, both the allure and the problem of questioning is that we are trying to be our opponent's teacher. We feel they are ignorant (and they are, dammit!) and we want to educate them. But if you've ever been in an 8th grade biology class with a substitute teacher, you know that a defiant and uninterested student cannot be taught. Any question the teacher asks them will be flipped into something sarcastic or off-topic. Questions don't work, but they can be outsmarted and defeated by superior wit and skillful retorts. Never say, "Don't you think you're being a little hypocritical after what you did last week?" They won't say yes. Instead, turn your question into a statement, "After what you did last week, this is completely hypocritical." Don't Be Lead By Questions Any question someone asks you in a debate is a trap: They want to position themselves as the teacher (authoritative and wise) and you as the student (subservient and inexperienced). Often, they want you to state their point for them, or at least introduce it. At the very least, they are using you to help finish their sentences. If you allow this to happen, you unwittingly become an accomplice to their point, making it much more difficult to argue against. Just say, "I'm listening if you want to make a point: there's no need to frame it as a question." Don't Use Annoying Buzz Phrases Telling someone to "stop drinking the kool-aid," or calling people "sheeple" doesn't do anything to increase your legitimacy. It just makes it sound like you've copied your arguments from a radical pundit on AM radio or cable news. Also, don't call people "folks." Folks is an irritating word used by the elite in politics, business, and media to sound humble and connected. The reality is you sound like a jackass, and imitating jackasses is no way to win. Any buzz phrase can easily be stated in a much more convincing fashion. Instead of telling someone to "stop drinking the kool-aid," say something like, "You're just repeating the stumping points of [political party]. They haven't been able to back them with convincing evidence, and neither have you." Do a Quick Structure Check Since an online post is usually just a quick statement, rather than being a researched, outlined and revised research article, it's often the case that someone will start writing hesitantly and gradually work their way up into a strong point. Before you post, look and see if your first few sentences were just a warm up. Can they be cut? Also check to see if you started with a conclusion, then figured out a good way to explain it. In that case, your first few sentences might work best at the end. Check for dangling arguments that are off point (and could start a second debate thread) along with removing metaphors and questions. Jesse Nivens was a varsity (though never a master) debater in high school. He is currently a designer, game developer, writer, and self-proclaimed expert of internet argumentation living in Springfield, Missouri. Follow @jessenivens on Twitter. [ lifehacker.com ] |
| I'm feeling deep right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini a répondu le Fri 14 Sep, 2012 @ 2:24am |
 Coolness: 145175 | i couldn't agree more about the point concerning metaphor, same goes for arguing from analogy, for the last time kids, analogies make great explanations but horrible arguments... |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss a répondu le Sat 15 Sep, 2012 @ 6:37am |
 Coolness: 129695 | Trolling the way it works is basically when you meet someone who dosen't agree with your opinion they're bascially a troll
Like when a guy walks into a barber shop and says "Yo we got a black president!" Then a guy called Hashish says "Hummm...not really, he's actually half black half white, we're never actually had a black president in the US, its a complete myth." Thats when the guy gets mad an says "Hey fuck you man, you fucking racist troll!" So you see analogies can actually be a great way of explaining things, like in the case above, where the guy uses the troll card to justify his ignorance |
| I'm feeling sunshine right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini a répondu le Sun 16 Sep, 2012 @ 12:09am |
| Coolness: 145175 | ahhh did we enjoy our little time out session, bummer boy? |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» fengshui-engine a répondu le Sun 16 Sep, 2012 @ 4:33am |
 Coolness: 62360 | [ owni.fr ] |
| I'm feeling final fantasy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» M-A-X a répondu le Mon 17 Sep, 2012 @ 10:08am |
 Coolness: 121610 | I know the answer: Bring your point/opinion constructively |
| I'm feeling trance in my pants! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JasonBeastly a répondu le Mon 15 Oct, 2012 @ 3:07am |
 Coolness: 76685 | What an odd name for a thread. This is an entirely impossible thing to do. If you argue on the internet, chances are that people will fail to comprehend that you are arguing, not dissing, and will react by calling you a troll. Trolling is actually actively setting out to derail an entire forum or thread or what-have-you by saying things only to get a reaction. It can be done in a rather organized manner, as in getting a bunch of other users, often recruited anonymously, to team up on a website "for the lulz", posting pics of lemon party, goatse, longcat, etc, until none of the regular users can take it anymore; or solo, by trying to hide behind proxies and create false accounts, also, presumably, "for the lulz".
If no lulz are to be had you are a failure as a troll, and by extension, as a human being. Nevertheless, if the troll has managed to annoy the hell out of the majority of the board, they have succeeded in trolling, only they haven't done anything epic or memorable in the meantime, indicating most of the time that they are really sad and lonely despite whatever they may be successful at, if anything (and especially if they have better things to do with their time). Every time I've been called one for bringing up a controversial point without resorting to common fallacies I can't help but sense that the person I'm arguing with doesn't really comprehend the structure of a syllogism and critical thinking, but I also realize that I'm a total geek for logic, which most people just don't grasp. Anyway, have a good day everyone, and really, just be sillier. Stop taking the bait. |
| I'm feeling like a bag of dicks right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Choda_Bean a répondu le Tue 16 Oct, 2012 @ 4:16am |
 Coolness: 219945 |  |
| I'm feeling your insides right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DrGonzo a répondu le Tue 16 Oct, 2012 @ 6:14am |
 Coolness: 265930 | Originally Posted By DJ_DIALECT
♥ internet |
| I'm feeling fire penguin disco panda right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn a répondu le Thu 18 Oct, 2012 @ 5:53pm |
 Coolness: 158210 | |
| I'm feeling nerdy right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss a répondu le Sun 28 Oct, 2012 @ 4:28am |
| Coolness: 129695 | Originally Posted By JASONBEASTLY
If no lulz are to be had you are a failure as a troll, and by extension, as a human being. yeah because everyone knows the secret to being a successful human being revolves around being a funny troll, glad to know you have your priorities straight lol... |
| I'm feeling sunshine right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Masa a répondu le Sun 28 Oct, 2012 @ 4:31pm |
 Coolness: 158745 | You're missing the point of that particular phrase, twat. If you're not trolling with the intention of being funny, one can safely assume you do it to be mean. Which says a lot about your character. As a human being.
Don't worry, that's not an attack on your successful DJing career. At worst, it's an attack on your sense of humor.  |
| I'm feeling chaotic! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» JasonBeastly a répondu le Sun 28 Oct, 2012 @ 4:47pm |
| Coolness: 76685 | The secret to being a successful human being is succeeding. I would use the expression "by extension" here to indicate there is an issue extant to the event, that the psyche responds to success or failure regardless of whether or not it's of astronomical or insignificant importance. Why else would you keep returning to put in the last word? Your ego bruised, you figure you can throw some dying blows in, instead of accepting that some part of your psychology, deep down inside yourself knows you lost. There was a battle, and you were dealt a blow, only it was psychological and hit deep and made you wonder if yogourt really knew what yo were doing online. Was it for masturbation; for narcissistic self-promotional reasons; was it to go create an alter-ego, a sense of identity, experiencing it up to now as society qua the Matrix urt (Wachowski 1999); ? Was there witchcraft going on? Was somebody trying to make a fool out of you?
So by the terms of the aforementioned hyperbole, failure at doing something like trolling is by extension a failure nonetheless, and represents a human failure. If you were to succeed at it, you would be a successful human being, even if only briefly, and at a very pathetic scale. See how that works, logically, and suitably with what I said only a few posts before? I hope that ends it for once. |
| I'm feeling a strong desire to kill somethin right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini a répondu le Mon 29 Oct, 2012 @ 2:23am |
| Coolness: 145175 | Originally Posted By BLISSS
yeah because everyone knows the secret to being a successful human being revolves around being a funny troll, glad to know you have your priorities straight lol... ending a post with lol... -5pts |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss a répondu le Mon 29 Oct, 2012 @ 2:44am |
| Coolness: 129695 | Originally Posted By JASONBEASTLY
The secret to being a successful human being is succeeding. I would use the expression "by extension" here to indicate there is an issue extant to the event, that the psyche responds to success or failure regardless of whether or not it's of astronomical or insignificant importance. Why else would you keep returning to put in the last word? Your ego bruised, you figure you can throw some dying blows in, instead of accepting that some part of your psychology, deep down inside yourself knows you lost. There was a battle, and you were dealt a blow, only it was psychological and hit deep and made you wonder if yogourt really knew what yo were doing online. Was it for masturbation; for narcissistic self-promotional reasons; was it to go create an alter-ego, a sense of identity, experiencing it up to now as society qua the Matrix urt (Wachowski 1999); ? Was there witchcraft going on? Was somebody trying to make a fool out of you? So by the terms of the aforementioned hyperbole, failure at doing something like trolling is by extension a failure nonetheless, and represents a human failure. If you were to succeed at it, you would be a successful human being, even if only briefly, and at a very pathetic scale. See how that works, logically, and suitably with what I said only a few posts before? I hope that ends it for once. Translation: "I am a lonely raver who's smoked a lot of crack so I troll forums and lecture complete strangers on how to be successful human beings which according to my philosophy basically comes down to succeeding at doing something, anything, like tieing my shoe laces or scoring another rock for my pipe" Lol... |
| I'm feeling sunshine right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini a répondu le Mon 29 Oct, 2012 @ 3:50am |
| Coolness: 145175 | please don't bring up crack rock
CRACK ROCK!!!!!  |
| I'm feeling surly right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Blisss a répondu le Mon 29 Oct, 2012 @ 3:59am |
| Coolness: 129695 | In all seriousness though, crack is awful
I regularily bump into a guy in my neighborhood who used to be a serious raver back in the 90s, always at all the parties, then he got into crack and now he begs for money on the street for his fix. My advice: Stay away from that shit! |
| I'm feeling sunshine right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 a répondu le Wed 31 Oct, 2012 @ 8:16pm |
 Coolness: 159095 | Originally Posted By BLISSS
Trolling the way it works is basically when you meet someone who dosen't agree with your opinion they're bascially a troll Originally Posted By BLISSS
Translation: "I am a lonely raver who's smoked a lot of crack so I troll forums and lecture complete strangers on how to be successful human beings which according to my philosophy basically comes down to succeeding at doing something, anything, like tieing my shoe laces or scoring another rock for my pipe" It appears you are not agreeing with JasonBeastly's secret to becoming a successful human being. So by your previous definition, that basically makes you a... what again ? And in the same thread, mind you. |
| I'm feeling o.o right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Nathan a répondu le Tue 6 Nov, 2012 @ 5:18pm |
 Coolness: 166520 | I think that to figure out if you're arguing on the 'net without trolling, you have to ask yourself:
Am I participating in a discussion in which I simply don't agree with others? Or am I being argumentative because I dislike the others in the discussion and I'm trying to cause trouble? Problem is, Trolls know they're trolling (that's the whole point of it!) so they will never admit the answer to the above questions. If you aren't doing it on purpose, but still answer yes to question 2, then you might want to take a step back and consider your options: a. take the high road, forgive and forget b. maybe you're on the wrong forum c. think more deeply about your response before posting d. maybe you're being trolled into acting this way, in which case your options are: ... 1. ignore the troll ... 2. be a smart-ass and get him to give up (harder, most likely to bring you down with him) You just have to be honest with yourself and do the right thing. If you are a Troll, then if you find yourself insulted into a corner, leave before you find yourself banned or hated. The goal of trolling is to disrupt, get narrow-minded ppl to think, cause chaos in a prejudicial forum ... it is NOT to fling lame insults and piss off good people. (if you think the latter is the point, then you're a dumbass, and a failure at trolling) ... Most importantly, if there are no LOLZ, then everyone loses. ;) :P |
| I'm feeling you up right now.. | |
How To Argue On The Internet Without Becoming A Troll
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