Antitheism
| Good [+2]Toggle ReplyLink» Phoenix a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:03pm |
 Coolness: 81680 | "It appears to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that direct arguments against christianity and theism produce hardly any effect on the public; and freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men's minds which follows from the advance of science." [Darwin]
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." [Voltaire] "I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." [Einstein] "Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche] "I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life – our desire to go on living … our dread of coming to an end." [Edison] "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." [Lincoln] "Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?" [Arthur C. Clarke] "Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies." [Thomas Jefferson] "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile." [Kurt Vonnegut] "Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race." [Bertrand Russell] |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:24pm |
 Coolness: 158225 | +1 quoting skills.
The same Thomas Jefferson also stated, "I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." Quotes don't make a man. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» WassUpOnEarth a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:35pm |
 Coolness: 47860 | One of the necessary steps in human evolution is the disappearing of religions, so ppl can concentrate their thoughts on understanding the real world instead of believing extremely old, lasting myths. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» PoiSoNeD_CaNdY a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:36pm |
 Coolness: 91680 | Here we go again!
Accusing religion of bigotry and intolerance, and yet behaving with the same amount of bigotry and intolerance towards people of faith is hypocracy at its worst. Yes, most religions involve a certain amount of absurdity and delusion. Guess what, THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH (whether religious or NOT) ARE FULL OF DELUSIONS and ILLUSIONS used as a buffer against the existential fears of death and aloneness. Just read some psychology. In your case, you choose to delude yourself into thinking that religion is the root of all evil and all we need to do is convince people to be atheists and the world will be perfect. Dream on. (And you can quote me on that) |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Smurf a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:38pm |
 Coolness: 42990 | I wonder where some of the quotes come from?
Einstein believed in god and religion, one of his famous quotes is "I want to know god's thoughts, the rest are details". Darwin also believed in god, despite being behind the theory of evolution, which he said himself can only suppose and not prove, and also said it does not constitute an argument against christianity. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:52pm |
| Coolness: 158225 | To play the Devil's sdvocate, Einstein didn't believe in a Christian God; he believed in a supreme creation whose name had to be God because nothing else fitted as to his explanations.
Which is pretty much the same thing Darwin believed. God as a concept for creation but not as a distinct, sentient entity. Religion would be fine if it wasn't for the intolerance we all possess, whatever side you're on. And though the principles of said religions are not inherently "evil" or "warmongering" (with a few exceptions), those who use them, often use them for selfish, destructive needs. I personally believe in Eris, mongrels and cauliflowers. I don't go to war about it. I don't protest about my beliefs being or not being part of an institution/education. If we'd only believe and not try to dominate with said beliefs, all would be fine. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Captain.Obvious a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:56pm |
 Coolness: 32215 | Originally Posted By POISONED_CANDY
Here we go again! Accusing religion of bigotry and intolerance, and yet behaving with the same amount of bigotry and intolerance towards people of faith is hypocracy at its worst. Yes, most religions involve a certain amount of absurdity and delusion. Guess what, THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH (whether religious or NOT) ARE FULL OF DELUSIONS and ILLUSIONS used as a buffer against the existential fears of death and aloneness. Just read some psychology. In your case, you choose to delude yourself into thinking that religion is the root of all evil and all we need to do is convince people to be atheists and the world will be perfect. Dream on. (And you can quote me on that) You need to do more drugs because you don't do enough already. Mise À Jour » Captain.Obvious a écrit sur Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 12:58pm Also, Einstein was a Pantheist, not even close to being a Theist. Mise À Jour » Captain.Obvious a écrit sur Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:09pm Hypocracy at it's worst? No. Hypocracy at it's worst would be an Atheist accusing the pious of preaching dogma, then turning around and doing the same.
Atheists attack religion, not the people who act religious. Religious people however go nuts and attack the Atheists themselves, rarely actually addressing the Atheism its self, preferring to tell Atheists that they will be going to hell for their lack of faith. Do you like being told that you will spend an eternity in a firey pit being tortured? I've never said anything close to that to anyone religious. The worst I've ever done is tell people that they're wasting their time and the time of those they teach. Atheists don't delude themselves into thinking the world will be utopia once religion is gone, however it is WITHOUT A DOUBT, that the world would be better off without it. No more debates as to whether to have blood transfusions, no more snake handling, no more covering women, no more raping babies as a cure for AIDS, no more suicide bombers killing civilians, no more teaching children that their protestant friends will go to hell and that they should hate them, no more killing in the name of a god that doesn't exist. If you disagree, I'll have to do the work of the FSM and murder you. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:07pm |
 Coolness: 92255 | I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.
- Albert Einstein, responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein's question "Do you believe in God?" quoted in: Has Science Found God?, by Victor J Stenger I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being. - Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic, Vol. 5, No. 2 o be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with the natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot. But I am persuaded that such behaviour on the part of the representatives of religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine which is able to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark, will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to human progress. - Albert Einstein, Science and Religion (1941) The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil. We see before us a huge community of producers the members of which are unceasingly striving to deprive each other of the fruits of their collective labor - not by force, but on the whole in faithful compliance with legally established rules. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. - Albert Einstein, The World As I See It (1949) I am an adherent of the ideal of democracy, although I well know the weaknesses of the democratic form of government. Social equality and economic protection of the individual appeared to me always as the important communal aims of the state. Although I am a typical loner in daily life, my consciousness of belonging to the invisible community of those who strive for truth, beauty, and justice has preserved me from feeling isolated. - Albert Einstein, The World As I See It (1949) Laws alone cannot secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of tolerance in the entire population. - Albert Einstein, Out Of My Later Years (1950), quoted from Laird y, ed., "The Degeneration of Belief" Albert Einstein was neither relgious or non-religious. He didn't believe in god the way he's commonly portrayed but he clearly believed in a god/force of spiritual nature. He understood how social problems happen and that tolerance was important. I think he just loved nature for what it really was and was not one to reject anything. Even Einstein completely contradicts himself with some his quotes. It reminds me how unperfect even legends are or maybe it's just a sign of how much ppl respected him that he didn't have to be careful about every tidbit he said. Mise À Jour » moondancer a écrit sur Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:12pm Boohoohoo, cry me a river Captain Oblivious. Nobody is bothering you. You are not the victim you make yourself out to be. Get over it. Mise À Jour » moondancer a écrit sur Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:14pm It's amazing, not one person has said anythign against atheism yet and you are already defending it. Wow you are really fuckign tortured by all those relgiious people, damn. There's not a single one around and yet they're preching at you. They're telepathic oh no. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Captain.Obvious a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:11pm |
| Coolness: 32215 | [ en.wikipedia.org ]
Pantheism is the view that everything is of an all-encompassing immanent abstract God; or that the Universe, or nature, and God are equivalent. More detailed definitions tend to emphasize the idea that natural law, existence, and the Universe (the sum total of all that is, was, and shall be) is represented in the theological principle of an abstract 'god' rather than a personal, creative deity or deities of any kind. This is the key feature which distinguishes them from panentheists and pandeists. As such, although many religions may claim to hold pantheistic elements, they are more commonly panentheistic or pandeistic in nature. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Phoenix a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:11pm |
| Coolness: 81680 | Beliefs such as the existence of God and determinism can neither be proven nor refuted which is why one can allow themselves to accept the delusion of false truth, or the absence of truth as such. One must carefully consider that the only truth that can be accepted for certain is that the truth is, might always have been, and might always remain unknown. Consequently, one can realistically theorize that the probability of its full discovery, understanding, and acceptance is negligible at best. Darwin and Einstein likely came to a similar realization which prompted their desires to discover something about existence far beyond what they had thought or been taught. Relativity and evolution still remain theories today which is why one can maintain confidence that their beliefs may still in reality be true as they have yet to be disproved and we have yet to justify our being here via other means.
"Now what is the message there? The message is that there are known "knowns." There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. So when we do the best we can and we pull all this information together, and we then say well that's basically what we see as the situation, that is really only the known knowns and the known unknowns. And each year, we discover a few more of those unknown unknowns." - Donald Rumsfeld  |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Horus a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:20pm |
 Coolness: 40740 | Originally Posted By POISONED_CANDY
Here we go again! Accusing religion of bigotry and intolerance, and yet behaving with the same amount of bigotry and intolerance towards people of faith is hypocracy at its worst. Yes, most religions involve a certain amount of absurdity and delusion. Guess what, THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON THIS EARTH (whether religious or NOT) ARE FULL OF DELUSIONS and ILLUSIONS used as a buffer against the existential fears of death and aloneness. Just read some psychology. In your case, you choose to delude yourself into thinking that religion is the root of all evil and all we need to do is convince people to be atheists and the world will be perfect. Dream on. (And you can quote me on that) Bravo! Great post. :) Oh, and since we are on the topic of God, Reality, Truth, known unknowns and suchlikes, let us put in perspective just exactly what TRUTH is: Truth is something which, when thought about, can logically be structured in such a way as making sense in every aspect. Interestingly, truth is something which is only conceptual. Truth is based upon concepts. It is the arrangement of conecepts between themselves which leads us to the conclusion of "true" or "false" or "undetermined, need more data, or another joint or whatever". Let us then put into perspective what concepts are: they are a mental construct designed to REPRESENT an observed ASPECT of REALITY. They are a placeholder for reality. The universe is out there, concepts are just in our minds. Concepts and Reality are two very very different things, not in the same league at all. And yet, through the absurdly inflated pride of intellect, humans insist on treating concepts as they would reality. On an equal footing. As such, a humongous mistake of distortion of facts is constantly being made and human consciousness is thus forever veiled by illusion. Those with the greatest intellects are those who are the greatest victims of this. Happy the simple-minded. So anyway, to sum it up, truth is a trick of the mind. No more, no less. It is a very important trick which lets one believe that they actually understand SOMETHING, which is extremely important in giving the ego a modicum of security in what would otherwise be an extremely threatening universe which they cannot comprehend. Yet, "truth" is so deeply flawed that it must be remembered that it cannot be allowed to have any bearing on our behavior or consciousness, lest we become as the religious fanatics. Hm... That felt good. :) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Captain.Obvious a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 1:51pm |
| Coolness: 32215 | So because you can't trust your own senses or mind or truthes, anything is possible! Ponies and sunshine is all that matters, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:13pm |
 Coolness: 106105 | Religion is a great comfort in a world torn apart by... religion. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:17pm |
| Coolness: 158225 | Originally Posted By DATABOY
Religion is a great comfort in a world torn apart by... religion. You win the internets, good sir. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Captain.Obvious a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:27pm |
| Coolness: 32215 | I'm using the internet right now. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DCRn a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:37pm |
| Coolness: 158225 | Yes, yes you are. You like'em tubes. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» databoy a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:39pm |
| Coolness: 106105 | Originally Posted By DRNYARLATHOTEP YOU WIN THE INTERNETS, GOOD SIR.
Humour? |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Captain.Obvious a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:41pm |
| Coolness: 32215 | Humour is how you spell Humor in a country called The Dominion of Canada. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Horus a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:47pm |
| Coolness: 40740 | Originally Posted By CAPTAIN.OBVIOUS
Humour is how you spell Humor in a country called The Dominion of Canada. Or in the one called the United Kingdom. Which might be interpreted as an insult to other kingdoms which would be thus, dis-united. Interestingly my browser underscores humour as a typo but not humor, even though it seems aware of my geographical location. It must mean to aggravate me. Which gets even worse if I switch to French... :o |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope a répondu le Thu 13 Dec, 2007 @ 2:49pm |
 Coolness: 201215 | They use American spelling in the default spell-check. Which is unfortunate because I don't say HUM OR, I say HUMOUR |
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Antitheism
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