-=* Need Help In Recording Mixes *=-
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:06pm |
 Coolness: 159075 | Ok so I finally got a decent setup at home after years of mixing with Traktor and a f**king mouse and it's all hooked up to my PC.
I'm an absolute n00b when it comes to recording (I've never done it before) and recorded a mix for the first time yesterday but it sounds a bit like shit. Presumably, the master volume as well as the bass were way too high and ended up distorting the sound a bit too much. It's not bad but it sure ain't studio quality. I recorded it in Adobe Audition and found I busted the levels throughout. Retarded n00b mistake, granted. But I'm here to learn from those with experience. So, would any DJs on here be so kind as to give me answers and pointers on this ? - First off, I used Adobe Audition to record. Is this a good prog to record a set ? If not, what should I definitely get that's way better than this ? - I saved the master copy as WAV and saved the final copy as MP3. Should the master copy be saved in something else than WAV ? - The final copy is in MP3 format with a 192 bit rate, 44000 freq. Stupid Audition won't allow me to save at a higher frequency or bit rate. Should I even attempt or bother saving in an MP3 format higher than this ? - Ok so the levels are through the roof. Being such a novice, I tried normalizing but that basically just lowered the volume a bit and did shit all for the distortion. What processes do you guys indisputably apply to ANY of your recorded sets to insure optimal sound quality ? - Audition just records whatever you throw at it. Is there a process I should activate PRIOR to recording ? - I can tweak the knobs a bit on the mixer so it sounds right when it comes out of my speakers but I'm recording this so it's not the same thing. Should I always keep the bass & treble knobs (my mixer doesn't have a mid knob, weirdly enough) at 50% on the mixer at all times or doesn't it really matter where they are (mind you, they're set around 55-60% usually) ? Any other expertise, experience, suggestions or heck, even stories, are greatly appreciated. Thank you ! Martin |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:18pm |
 Coolness: 685545 | for the distortion, when you record, set the recording volume in your sound mixer to pretty much one notch above the lowest it'll go.. like pull the slider all the way down, then push the up arrow on your keyboard 2-3 times.. when you're mixing, make sure that the individual tracks don't go into the red (use the individual gains on the channels) and same for the master, don't let it go up to red..
Audition is OK, but I guess that since you can't save higher than 192k you might want to use something else (I use Audacity to record, it's free) When it comes to using the EQ, that's really up to how you want to mix, but to get the best sound possible you really want to work the EQs.. Think of your mixer and tracks as glasses of water; the Master is a 3oz glass that's empty, and each track is composed of 3 glasses of water that are 1oz each (the low/mid/high); If you keep your EQ's dead center and have both tracks playing, you're trying to fit 6oz of water into a 3oz glass; it's sloppy and gonna sound like ass, even if you're not distorting, because there's only so much room for each frequency.. You've got to mix that shit so that your glass never over-flows, and most importantly never have the basslines going at the same time, because bass is the strongest frequency and takes the most room in the mix.. if you've got two basses going at the same time, you've got no room for mids and highs, and it just ends up sounding like your sub is farting. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» flo replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:34pm |
 Coolness: 146280 | what Fred said :)
Of course you have to use EQs... you should get another mixer since yours doesn't have a mid-EQ. You have to monitor distortion on the mixer's LEDs while mixing, which is part of the basics of mixing... there's the turntable technique for beatmatching, the track selection (which tune and when you get it started and stopped), and then the rest is all done with the mixer by fading/cutting the tracks in and out using the EQs and faders, which determines the general volume for frequency bands (high-medium-low) --> this is where you have to make sure each band's volume doesn't get too loud! (which would cause saturation and hence distortion). I also use Audacity, it's very easy to use, free, and light. Saving in WAV and then converting the final recording in mp3 (or ogg/flac/etc.) is what everybody does, I guess. I don't think you can do much to save your mix and remove its distortion: it's caused by saturation, which implies a loss of what your heard that was too loud, when you were mixing. I don't think you have to use any effect to record your mixes (I mean, it's not necessary). In order to set the right recording volume in your software and on your mixer's master channel, you'll have to do 2-3 trials and errors on your new setup; trials can be just a few seconds that you check right afterwards. |
| I'm feeling at home! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:36pm |
| Coolness: 159075 | Oh, of course I do that. LOL.
Thank you for the explanation Fred but it's something I've been doing since I started mixing 20 years ago. Heh. But I think I'll have to consider lowering the bass for the track PLAYING a bit as well to prevent bass overkill when recording though. As for Audition's inability to record higher than 192k, I'm presumably just missing some codecs or something. But erm, should I be encoding it at 256k or should I just stick to 192k ? |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:37pm |
| Coolness: 685545 | well that's just saving as MP3, depends on what quality you want to upload the mix at.. 192 is usually good enough, but the higher the better heh, just takes more room! |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» flo replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:40pm |
| Coolness: 146280 | yeah 192 really is enough for a mix... the file gets a little big, otherwise.
I've been using the LAME mp3 encoder for over 10 years, I'm still happy with it but there might be better ones now... |
| I'm feeling at home! right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:50pm |
| Coolness: 159075 | Originally Posted By SCREWHEAD
well that's just saving as MP3, depends on what quality you want to upload the mix at.. 192 is usually good enough, but the higher the better heh, just takes more room! Heh, thanks. I knew that. I'm a n00b but not that much. : ) Yeah I figured 192k was enough. Although I'm not sure if the frequency changes anything though, as if 44000 is enough or I should use a higher freq. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 4:59pm |
| Coolness: 685545 | 44000 is the standard for regular audio.. you'd go higher if you're working on super-high-end stuff.. if you record at higher than that, it'll speed up and chipmunk when played back by a standard player.. I don't quite remember why though.. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 5:16pm |
| Coolness: 159075 | Cool. I'll stick to 44000 then. Btw, is there a way I can reduce the distortion on the mix using an audio editor like Audition ? Normalizing does nothing to reduce distortion. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Screwhead replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 5:18pm |
| Coolness: 685545 | nope, you're screwed on that.. If you record distortion, it's in there for good. |
| I'm feeling like a drama magnet right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» flo replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 5:21pm |
| Coolness: 146280 | as explained above...
Originally Posted By SCREWHEAD
44000 is the standard for regular audio.. you'd go higher if you're working on super-high-end stuff.. if you record at higher than that, it'll speed up and chipmunk when played back by a standard player.. I don't quite remember why though.. 44100 Hz is the sampling frequency: in order to digitalize the analog (continuous-time) signal, you have to record only instant chunks (discrete-time). Those chunks are recorded at a given frequency: 44.1 kHz means you get the signal value 44100 times per second. Since it's the standard frequency, most players assume that they have to play 44100 values per second. If you record at a higher frequency, say 88.2 kHz, then you'll have twice as many values for a given time interval (e.g. one second), so when you replay the sequence of values (i.e. the digital recording) they'll be played twice as slow... (the opposite of chipmunk). If you get chipmunk when playing a 88 kHz recording, maybe it's the player's settings that are fucked up and assume that it's 22 kHz so that it skips every 2 samples. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» clown replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 5:59pm |
 Coolness: 221720 | it really could just be a soundcard issue. whats your card ?? |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» A.Singleton replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 6:02pm |
 Coolness: 33905 | what version of audition do you use? record to something between -6 and -3 db in audition (or whatever program you use) and be sure to not hit the red on the mixer. You can still boost your sound afterward, but never can go back if your first recording sounds distorted.
As far as I know, Audition let you record a 320, 44100. when you save as, choose mp3, then preferences, i guess there is a mp3 pro vs mp3 thing. just go for mp3, you ll have access to all the encoding preference from there. The master should be a wav, cause you can code to anything from that after. |
| I'm feeling like tweaking that drum kit right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 6:06pm |
| Coolness: 159075 | Heh, nice to know Flo.
And Screwhead, fuUUUuUUUuck. I'll have to redo the mix it seems. Meh, I wasn't happy with the order of the tracks and some of the mixes anyhow, it'll just give me an excuse to do it better next time and not be such a friggin' noob with the levels. :) Update » v.2-1 wrote on Wed May 12, 2010 @ 6:42pm @A.Singleton : Adobe Audition 3. -6 and -3db ? Got it. Yeah, I just found out the hard way about recording low and boosting the sound afterwards if need be.
As for saving MP3s, yeah I already went into the MP3 encoder's preference and I have the crapload of choice you mention even if I select 256k, it won't allow me to save beyond 192k which is fine anyway, I don't mind. Master in WAV ? Good, at least I did ONE THING right. LOL. |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» A.Singleton replied on Thu May 13, 2010 @ 4:00am |
| Coolness: 33905 | I never went past audition 1.5... 2.0 sucked and I moved forward. I still use 1.5 to encode in mp3 though. Try Audacity, event if the version I go is not working on my mac.
Be sure to rename separately every version you make. you never know. |
| I'm feeling like tweaking that drum kit right now.. | |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» rawali replied on Thu May 13, 2010 @ 8:41am |
 Coolness: 140640 | I preffer recording sets with something that records direct to drive and do the processing after... this way if any crashes while you're recording you dont lose what youve done so far... on osx there is a little app called audio recorder which lets you record direct to disk in mp3/ogg/aif/wav on windows... I think it was called direct ogg or something...
and yeah record with some headrom (-6db ish) and then crank the gain on the final... maybe if you have one or two random peaks in the mix and you wanna push the volume a bit more and remove those peaks... you can do that in audition or audacity or whatever tickles your fancy |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Thu May 13, 2010 @ 4:49pm |
 Coolness: 201180 | 1) Audition is the best audio editor for windows that I have used, it's perfectly adapt at recording a 2 track mix.
2) Master in WAV is fine.. If you start running out of space you can convert the waves to FLAC (won't happen these days where TB drives cost very little) 3) Audition can save any normal encodings of mp3, make sure it's not set on mp3pro.. or us an external encoder like LAME 4) This is easy, pay attention to the levels while you record! make sure you're not red-lining on your mixer and make sure the mixer is being recorded at a reasonably low level... it should not hit 0 in audition while recording. It's fine to be a little conservative with the level. You can't fix it if it is recorded too loud, but if it's a bit quiet you can boost the gain after. I suggest recording in 24bit if you soundcard can handle it, you get a tiny bit more headroom when recording. 192kbit is fine for putting mixes online |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Thu May 13, 2010 @ 7:44pm |
| Coolness: 159075 | Originally Posted By DRTAKO
1) Audition is the best audio editor for windows that I have used, it's perfectly adapt at recording a 2 track mix. Ok. I considered Audacity but I'm somehow now seeing the use if I already have Audition. As long as it records fine, I can't complain. Originally Posted By DRTAKO
2) Master in WAV is fine.. If you start running out of space you can convert the waves to FLAC (won't happen these days where TB drives cost very little) Meh, even if I run out of space, I'll just burn the Masters on DVDs, just in case my HD goes apeshit (you never know). Originally Posted By DRTAKO
3) Audition can save any normal encodings of mp3, make sure it's not set on mp3pro.. or us an external encoder like LAME Hm. I haven't noticed what encoder is currently selected on there. Why is mp3pro bad though ? Compression is too high with this encoder ? Originally Posted By DRTAKO
4) This is easy, pay attention to the levels while you record! make sure you're not red-lining on your mixer and make sure the mixer is being recorded at a reasonably low level... it should not hit 0 in audition while recording. It's fine to be a little conservative with the level. You can't fix it if it is recorded too loud, but if it's a bit quiet you can boost the gain after. Well, the mixer doesn't have any LEDs on it so I can't really rely on that but my CPU's screen is close to my setup so I can monitor that at all times. But yeah, I learned the hard way about recording too loud. Gotta start learning somewhere. So yeah, next time, I'll keep it from reaching red in Audition and, like you mentioned, boost the gain afterwards if need be. Originally Posted By DRTAKO
I suggest recording in 24bit if you soundcard can handle it, you get a tiny bit more headroom when recording. 192kbit is fine for putting mixes online Nah, I think it's locked at 16bit. If I'm to record with the stuff I have at home, I think I should invest in better sound card. Any suggestions on a decent fairly inexpensive card ? Btw, thanks for the input, man. :) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» clown replied on Mon May 17, 2010 @ 12:10pm |
| Coolness: 221720 | i have an M-audio for sale. it has 1 out put and 1 input, both in RCA. i used it for the longest of times to record mixes.. it's an internal card, so new Motherboards probably don't have a slot for it, but if your running a 2002 PC or older your fine !!
i can't remember the details on the exact name of the card but i can let you have it for 50$ !! it's even not too bad for production to a certain extent but after too many compressors at the same time, the card starts to lag a little .. i just picked up a MOTU Ultralite MK3 !! YAY let me know ! :) |
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| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Mon May 17, 2010 @ 5:45pm |
| Coolness: 201180 | the old m-audios are great (audiophiles), if you have pci slots. Think that's what clown is talking about. |
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-=* Need Help In Recording Mixes *=-
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