French In Montreal...
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ADDJ replied on Tue Apr 19, 2005 @ 11:17pm |
 Coolness: 42455 | I'm hoping to start an actual discussion here...So please don't let this devolve into racist bullshit, but yeah....
Sitting on the Metro today, I started to wonder if Quebec's insular language laws & stupid politicians impede the use of the language they are so desperately trying to preserve and protect. They continue to encourage the segregation of the language. I think that the fact that Montreal *isn't* bilingual, impedes the ability of non-francophones to learn the language.. When you're surrounded by both languages- even subcounciously you learn the translated word(s).. I believe that most of the French I've learned, I've learned by reading bilungual signs, product labels, product jingles.. (At least I got something out of this rampant consumerism other than excess packaging and crappy product..:P ) The fact that I have a fairly large french vocabulary, yet struggle with simple conjugation and verb tenses re-enforces my beliefs.. So, here we have this core population that functions fluently in french - while people like me (franco by blood, but not fluent in the language..) and other immigrants have trouble integrating and functioning within French society. With all the money the Quebec and Canadian governments spend on "preserving the French language" - a Canadian citizen (me) can't take a free French course; but refugees and immigrants from other countries can - how does that make sense? I'm the most taxed motherfucker on the continent! I'd venture out on a limb to say that it even impedes the growth of the language nationally... Consider the mortality rate of French Canadians, which is disproportionately higher than the rest of the country. Could these current laws and attitudes literally kill this language and culture? Mathmatically - it seems possible.. I'm afraid this beautiful culture will be destined to the same fate as Canada's aboriginal people's - Looted, pillaged, raped, and destroyed for the benefit of the corporations and politicians.. The saving grace - all the kind Montrealers who've helped teach me so much in such a short period of time (vith varying degrees of patience...) The majority of Montrealers have been so helpful and kind! Thank you!! |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» beercrack replied on Tue Apr 19, 2005 @ 11:32pm |
 Coolness: 71370 | )i wear myths as a perceptual helmet(
t'aurais pu ecrire ca en francais!? i'm not big on 101 body language does its thing |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Mko_ replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 12:02am |
 Coolness: 47840 | French Canadians don't help either.
The second we hear (or read) something in english we switch languages. I don't see that happen the other way around too often. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ADDJ replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 12:23am |
| Coolness: 42455 | Handheld + Voice Recognition Software + Translator = Au revoir, barrière de langue. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» beercrack replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 12:24am |
| Coolness: 71370 | i think my language is franglais. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» Psy_co replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 1:14am |
 Coolness: 488535 | there's no french classes in high school
cause i learned to speak english there ??? |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» basdini replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 1:17am |
 Coolness: 145135 | vive la bec libre... |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» DocSavage replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 1:18am |
 Coolness: 90255 | I'm stuck knowing enough french to 'get by' but not to get a job. My french is too advanced for general french classes but not good enough that i can understand a normal conversation. It drives me nuts. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 1:29am |
 Coolness: 159055 | I'm french-canadian myself and I'm not too keen on Bill 101 either. I find it constrictive. My workplace is outfitted with PCs running XP and various software in french only and considering that more than 85% of our clientele is english, I hardly see the justification for this. Even the PC repair guys curse in good-old french-canadian swear words when working on all-french PCs.
Besides, ask any car mechanic if he or she enjoys Bill 101. Or if they know what a " rondelle de butée " or " roulements à rotule sur rouleaux " stands for and I can assure you, that person's going to know a hell of a lot more about it if you tell them it's a plain old " thrust washer " or " spherical roller bearing ". BOTH languages should be embraced equally and Montreal should be viewed as a focal point for both cultures, not as a city of stubborn old decrepit french men and women desperately clinging to an age old desire to stay as lazy as possible and avoid learning ANOTHER language, phew. I personally would be all for keeping french alive if those who swear by it could find a way to write legibly without making typos and grammatical errors every 2 words or if the damned language wouldn't have about 24 made-up verbal tenses created by renaissance writers to confuse common lowly readers and establish themselves as far superiors minds by writing stuff only THEY and about 3 other writers would understand... ...and yet our french schools still show the " passé conditionnel du subjonctif " and all sorts of grammatical crap when they should really focus on finding ways to make today's youth write " bonjour " without fucking it up with 3 typos. So anglos out there, if you think french is fucked up, you are absolutely right. I'm glad I was raised french-canadian because I couldn't possibly fathom learning such a devastatingly mind numbing language. Do I love french ? Sure I do. It's IMPOSING it and I'm not too hot about. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ADDJ replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 2:47am |
| Coolness: 42455 | Hey Ryan, just check out the Gazette, the Hour, and HRDC job bank - it takes some digging, but you can find english jobs here...
It's like finding that sweet record hehe.. Bill 101, just reading up on it now..- Seems like the intent of the educational provisions in the CORF was to protect language along family lines, but Bill 101 says "Parlez francais, l'esti!! Ou ne pas les éducation pour toi!" Are they spending enough money to make sure that kids will be taught the compulsory graduation standards? |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» nothingnopenope replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 2:56am |
 Coolness: 201160 | I thought my french was bad but I worked mostly in french for 3 months and was able to deal with it |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» moondancer replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 3:35am |
 Coolness: 92200 | yeah you can find english jobs in westmount. I know people who work in english offices all around also. or telemarketing
But, what duckman said, it takes digging. I think bill 101 is pretty extreme and they took it way too far but i think it`s probably the reason why quebec is still as french as it is. Just look at New Orleans. It`s hard to keep your culture and language when you`re surrounded by english people who just keep moving in. But I think it has a lot to do with just plain prejudice against english people. I mean if you listen to the séparatistes in power talk about the subject.. holy shit, i just wanna smack them. I agree with having very minimal language laws. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 8:04am |
 Coolness: 339600 | i find it pretty rediculous that beacuse of bill 101 a lot of francophones aren't learning english at all, considering just about all of north america speaks english, you'd think it'd be somewhat helpfull to be able to speak to someone outside of your province.. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» kimochi replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 9:12am |
 Coolness: 61135 | i think most of the francophones are bilingual, your not suffering in montreal.
you can be served in your langage most of the place you go. i did not lurn my english at school. and afther i realise that i would need it for work... so i went to vancouver to learn! i think thant concerving french in quebec is realy inportant tough. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 9:29am |
| Coolness: 339600 | i'm not saying that cause *i'm* suffering.. i'm saying this to fracophones on general.. this has little to do with me, since half my familly is infact french.. i'm able to speak them both, but i don't really need to.. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ADDJ replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:12am |
| Coolness: 42455 | I'm sure they feel the *same way*, Ian ;) lol |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» v.2-1 replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:17am |
| Coolness: 159055 | Well, I know I do. I agree with Yan on this...but then again, I'm biased too since I'm fully bilingual. I'm taking my cousin as an example : looking for a job but can't talk english. I wanted her to get a job where I work ( Cust Serv. Sucks but pay is good ) but she can't speak english.
Oh well. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» ADDJ replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:29am |
| Coolness: 42455 | Originally posted by MOONDANCER...
yeah you can find english jobs in westmount. I know people who work in english offices all around also. or telemarketing But, what duckman said, it takes digging. Telemarketing? When you're calling Americans, day in and day out, for the rest of your life (in english) - I fail to see how this truly benefits anyone, other than the greedy companies you'd work for.. The last telemarketing job I had was so disgusting I walked out half way through my first shift... I don't see how someone could perform that job on anything more than a temporary basis.. As for "not suffering" - I'm not quite sure I agree with that.. Just because you can function at a basic level does NOT mean you're living life to the fullest.. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» neoform replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 10:30am |
| Coolness: 339600 | francophones will have no problems getting a job if their company has no relations outside the province.. but the second that company does.. you've got a problem.. |
| Good [+1]Toggle ReplyLink» cinderella_soul replied on Wed Apr 20, 2005 @ 11:30am |
 Coolness: 56135 | I really want to say something on this subject. So...
There is a universal element to all languages. There are certain rules, which make languages possible and functional. Most importantly, individuals need to communicate amongst eachother, amongst other things, to improve their quality of life and survice as a species indefinately. One language is not better than another-- more evolved due to time and circumstance okay. No one ought to be forced to do anything as it is a human right to choose. But freedom does not come without responsibility. Thus, our choices ought to be responsible ones. The laws governing language, i agree, ought to be minimal in the sense of only having laws that are necessary and legitimate. Laws that promote healthy and thus, progressive communication between people is where it is at. Nevermind, laws that protect private interests.. laws ought to be applicable to all in its highest form and they have to be in everyone's general interest. Is it possible, I think it is. |
French In Montreal...
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